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Subscribe to RSSA charter school network in Chicago praised by Mayor Rahm Emanuel for its academic performance is under fire from parents and advocates for charging students $5 for some disciplinary infractions, including chewing gum, violating the dress code or being more than three minutes late to class.
The Noble Network of Charter Schools, which operates 10 high schools in the city, said it collected nearly $200,000 in discipline fees last year as part of a policy that asks misbehaving high school students to share in the cost of addressing the misbehavior. The money is then used by the school to offset the costs of teachers or staff who stay after school to administer detention.
“The goal is to promote positive behavior by staff and students and produce a learning environment that is conducive to learning and college preparation,” Michael Milkie, CEO and superintendent of Noble, said in a statement.
Emanuel, former White House chief of staff for President Barack Obama, has drawn criticisim from the Chicago Teachers Union for his open support of charter schools, including Noble, where teachers are mostly not unionzed.
Some education advocates say Noble's approach to discipline is counterproductive and another burden for poor families who are already struggling to get by. Students who accumulate a certain number of demerit points over a two-week period are then sent to detention, for which they must pay a $5 fee.
“We think the discipline system is ridiculously petty,” Julie Woestehoff, the executive director of Parents United for Responsible Education, told msnbc.com on Tuesday.
Students and parents marched to City Hall on Monday to protest the discipline policy, which Woestehoff said is unnecessarily harsh.
“We’ve talked to a lot of parents who have taken their kids out of Noble,” she told msnbc.com.
Donna Moore, a parent of a student at Noble school called the policy a “hidden tax on Chicago’s black and Latino families."
“Noble is forcing low-income parents to choose between paying the rent and keeping their child in school,” she was quoted as saying on the website of Parents United for Responsible Education.
Charter schools, which are publicly funded but privately run, offer students an alternative to the traditional public school system. They are increasingly popular in urban areas with high numbers of economically disadvantaged and struggling students.
Noble, founded by former Chicago public high school teachers, has a waiting list of 3,000 students wanting to enroll.
“We believe the fact that we had more than 8,000 applications for our incoming freshmen classes and long waiting lists for all our other classes demonstrates that families desperately want this safe, productive learning environment for their children,” Milkie said.
He told msnbc.com on Tuesday that the discipline policy provides a "safe, learning enviroment," for Noble's 6,500 students. Students who earn four demerits within a two-week period receive a three-hour detention and the $5 fine. Students with more than 12 detentions are referred to a class at a cost of $140. Accommodations are made for families who can't pay.
"We sweat the small stuff," Milkie said. "We think these are life skills that will help students."
Figuring out what discipline policy work best is a matter of debate among school administrators across the country. The Advancement Project, a legal action group based in Washington, D.C., has been working with schools to encourage a less punitive approach to minor infractions.
"It's unconscionable that a school could almost collect $200,000 in a year, especially when it's their mission to serve low-income families and students of color," Jim Freeman, a senior attorney with the organization, told msnbc.com.
KIPP, a charter network of 109 schools in 20 states and Washington, D.C., uses a different approach to promote good behavior.
“We have an incentive-based system,” Steve Mancini, director of public affairs for KIPP, told msnbc.com.
Many of the middle schools offer students ways to earn KIPP dollars, a school-based currency, for academic performance, conduct and overall behavior. That “money” can be turned in at the school store for school supplies, Mancini said.
But Mancini told msnbc.com that the reward system gets phased out in the higher grades as the students learn the “intrinsic reward” of school success.
“We want them to develop a love of learning for learning’s sake,” he said.
Kimberly Davis told the Chicago Tribune that the Noble discipline policy works. She said her daughter is on track to graduate high school, after paying more than $300 for behavior classes and discipline fees.
“You have to buy into the program,” Davis told the newspaper, adding that for her daughter, “it worked.”
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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Interesting approach. The money should come out of the students' allowance (if they get any), not the parents' wallets. Or the students could earn the money doing extra chores around the house.
I can see how it might be a burden to low-income parents, but only if they can't get their kid to behave. Might make them more involved in their child's education.
Agreed. They are really penalizing the parents in this scenario. I would prefer giving students minutes of detention for each infraction or something similar instead of parent's money.
I find it hilarious that some of the parents are picketing city hall about this. Apparently they didn't pay attention in their social studies classes. City Hall does not run these PRIVATE COMPANIES. HA HA HA HA HA HA. How stupid can they be.
As to the fines, I say good. For most of the students and parents, it is a lesson they learn. If my child was fined, I made sure they paid the fine.
If the kid did something to warrant punishment then punish them. Require the student to do janitorial or other manual work as part of punishment. This shouldn't be about money and punishment.
Good, charge more!
That's right people ---- just accept this like it's no big deal. Just keep smiling your FAKE smiles and living your empty lives. Keep giving up your freedoms ---- the freedoms your forefathers worked so hard to give to you.
Keep walking on eggshells ---- don't ever stand up and believe in something that's worth fighting for. Pretty soon, the way it's all going they'll want to start charging $5 a day ---- to breathe air ---- but don't worry, just keep following protocol, get in line, and act your part.
Where is the outrage?
What is happening to my country?
It started going to hell about the same time that kids found out that if teachers punished them for misbehaving that their parents would not only back the kids but work to get the teachers fired.
When I went to school we used to get swats for missbehaving but that was considered cruel punishment it did not hurt me and it was over fast the letter home to my parents as to what happened was the cause of a real spanking or swatting and for the most part the people I went to school with were pretty well behaved. In the 70s and 80s they took all that away some of it has come back but not enough. I mean look at the young people out there very little respect for themselves or anyone else. They get away with just about anything and we hold the parents responsible and not the kids and when the parents do punish thier kids someone steps in and says you cant do that.
This is what you have when you have petty politicians or striving to be petty politicians running an education system for profit. ONLY public schools are not intended to be run for profit hence the public school system. Many folks wish money to be the end all be all of everything from this to that and to and fro. ; ] But in reality to children make income? On the average are the kids earning a living? Living on there own and paying rent and bills? Who is then? Hmm. This seems to assume that kids have any cash at all. So to then penalize them with an eye toward financial recompense is not only unfair but unconstitutional. The school system will be paying this 200,000 dollars back within a short years time.
Furthermore to add injury to insult how are these schools doing? IF to play devils advocate because we are tightly related, IF the cost was fair what is the return? Are these schools overwhelming the mass? Are they astounding the crowds by there productivity? Hmm. ; ] Are they worth having to pay inot? Money is not the answer to anything let alone everything even in a capitalistic society. ; ]
Cheers
darn rules . hey kids don't listen to your parents rules ,just do as you please
The biggest problem with kids in school is there are no consequences for their actions. The fine usually involves the kid getting money from mom or dad, then the parents are involved.
The lady said she had to decide whether to pay the rent, or pay the fine. Really? Buy one less bag of chips, and one less soda, and it's covered. If your child is getting a lot of fines ( $300), the mom and/ or dad need to assess their role as the parent. Responsibility for your actions; lesson needs to be learned.
Typical MSNBC headline crap. The school does not fine you $5.00 for chewing gum. Get caught a certain number of times, and you get detention. Then you pay $5.00. If mom and dad don't want to pay, then teach the little darlings to obey the rules. pay a fine? get grounded for 2 weeks. or no X Box for two weeks. Now, you've got their attention. Got 2 detentions? No cell phone for 3 weeks. See how quickly they learn.
School has become quite different since I was in school in Chicago. Whatever happened to removing the gum and putting it on your nose. Where is the money going once they collect it from the parents?
Why do they call them Liberals, when all they do is pass more laws to oppress people?
Geez. I bet most of those who are in favor of this kind of restrictive crap are the same ones who seriously pushed the envelope when they were young. Gotta get them under control and in lockstep! I remember when there was actual disciplinary action taken for a REAL infraction. This is just frickin' greed at work. It's no wonder that more and more people are pulling their kids out of both publik and private schools to home-school them. Interesting that the model used for both systems is based on a Prussian model that produces good "workers" who typically do not ask too many questions. God forbid they get a REAL education and learn to think for themselves!
This is great!! I finally have confidence in America's future. Of course with all the I-phone, and other electronic devices it should be easy to pay. Or free if you behave. NICEEEEE! Liberty and Freedom to behave. Bring this everywhere. Dummys who think that it's oppression never experienced what it is not to have freedom.
Well, I certantly prefer this approach over schools paying kids just to show up to class.
This is NO more lawful then locking up parents for kids who are habitually absent. ; ]
We all saw how that turned out.
Cheers
Alan Iverson is now broke, a product of the public school indiscipline. Look now at Knicks Lin who already graduated from an ivy league college. Has anyone started to get the picture yet? If we follow these example we'll be competing with China and Sri Lanka soon. Those who are against this discipline are anti-America, and Anti-inner city youths.
the
Gestapo of Chicago at its finest
Well, maybe if teachers wee allowed to teach with out disruption of kids blowing bubbles, coming late to class, texting, and other things, then maybe our country would not be so far behind the other countries in math, science, geography.
And when you said that people are trampling all over the kids rights---I'm so sorry you feel that way but maybe if YOU read the Constitution you would know that nobody gets rights until they are 18 years old----and nowhere does it say anything about chewing gum
If YOUR kid was not able to learn because some other kid was talking back in class and popping their gum YOU would be the first to COMPLAIN
It is difficult to fathom why parents are unhappy. If they taught their children to follow the set rules, this would never have been a problem. This is a chance for children to learn accountability for their actions. Guess what, if there is a complaint of not having enough money, buy less gum, follow the rules, and you will not need to pay any fine.......................
Kudos to the school for having rules!
Politically correct, spoil my brat, yuppie parents is what happened. And if you're one of those parents, it's YOUR fault as well.
Or ... how about the third choice -- supervise and teach your kids to behave BEFORE they get to school.
Ha! Ahh Ha! lols and salutations. "YOUR" kid can't learn because another child is poping gum in the back of class? Hilarious. Hilarious that one the afore mentioned child is learning disabled to the point they can't learn as you put it because of gum popping and two that the child's teacher could not stop the gum popping in ANY other fashion then the fining of the child's parent to the sum of 5 dollars. ; ]
It must be an absolute wondrous seen to the few of you who act as though teachers everywhere are unable to discipline kids proper like. Is it that far of a stretch to YOUR imagination to KNOW that for the most part teachers have kids student if you will,.. Under control. But yet this extreme financial burden seems to please you to no end. I feel you are projecting your own insecurities on to the kids in this district. ; ]
Cheers
Cheers
Donna Moore, a parent of a student at Noble school called the policy a “hidden tax on Chicago’s black and Latino families."
Jesus....Making this a race thing already. Like white kids don't chew gum and they're NEVER late for class. Hahaha! If anything, I should be complaining about the college I just applied to. There's an African American scholarship. Yet no European American Scholarship. =/
For most of these families, the 5 dollars will be coming out of their parents wallet. Not their own. Parents shouldn't be punished for their kids chewing gum or being late to a class because they were too busy talking to friends in between classes.
And before you start the "Well, their parents should of taught them better" argument, you've never raised a teenager OR you've completely forgotten what it's like to be a teenager. When I was in school, I knew kids that acted just fine in front of their parents. But take the parents away and all hell breaks loose.
@dirp101
In reference to city hall not having anything to do with private schools. The question I have to you, and one rolling around in my mind is, why can't the parents march to city hall? They may be privately run schools, but they are publicly funded. So, since the parents are funding the charter school, should they not be allowed input into the dealings of this particular charter school? I know if money would come out of my taxes for a privately run charter school, I would be speaking out if their were misconduct. Fining a child for a minor infraction, is no more than a mobster's dealing, and a way to drum up extra cash. I wonder if anyone has checked to see if that $200,000 collected last year actually went to pay for overtime for teachers?
I think this is a great idea, not because the $5 fine means anything to the kids, but because it means something to the parents. The fines get the parent's attention and get them to do something about their misbehaving brats. It has been shown time after time that the positive motivation crap does not work with most kids, it is the negative of punishment that gets their attention. The kids get stuck with detention, taking up their free time to get their attention and the parents get the fine to get their attention to deal with their kids. This systems seems to work all around to achieve the goals.
I think this is fabulous! Finally a school willing to make kids PAY for their bad actions! Nothing speaks louder than taking away a kids spending money.
If you can't beat 'em...FINE 'em.
I think this program is realistic and a positive way of discipline. I went to a private High School in Chicago in the 70's and we had a fine system for certain breaches of the rules. Giving detention does little to modify behavior, but hit a student in their wallet and they sit up and take notice. There is nothing wrong with this policy and the parents should be making the students pay the fines with money they earned themselves, not money given to them by the parents.
“Noble is forcing low-income parents to choose between paying the rent and keeping their child in school,”
Sounds like they're being forced to parent. Chew gum publicly in the wrong country at the wrong time and it's thirty days in jail.
What moron created this? A money-grubbing private sector fat-cat economic extorting money from the poorest and most disadvantaged and sucking the economic life-blood from the neighborhood at the tune of more than a quarter-million dollars a year. This creates a scheme extorts money from the parents for the child's behavior, enriches the fat-cat private-sector contractors and empowers the children to wreck vengance on their parents all at the same time. The children will very quickly realize they have a big weapon to smack their parents with now, school fines. All they have to do is chew gum and commit other minor infractions to hold their parents hostage to the fines they create. Wonderful. I can just see it now "here single-parent mommie, you didn't let me go to the gangster rap concert so now you have to pay hundreds of dollars in fines."
Mowdy5gs, you must have been one of those kids popping gum in the back of the classroom instead of listening to the teacher because your syntax is atrocious. I would suggest that you pay a few fines and go to one of these charter schools so that you can learn how to punctuate a sentence.
And for the rest of you complainers, you might want to read the section of the article that states how these charter schools are doing pretty good academically. I say if a kid can't behave then they shouldn't be in school disturbing those who can. Let them be home schooled so the parents can see what it is like to deal with a child that has no respect.
What's wrong with our country isn't the "Politically correct, spoil my brat, yuppie parents" (Where did you come up with that lie it makes me laugh.) Being politically correct has nothing to do with the problem. It's simply A lot of people in America abuse their rights in front of their kids making them think it's okay. And chewing gum shouldn't even have a fine. Think of it this way. Their only chewing gum not smoking a blunt or raping their classmates are they? You know what I'm just going to sum all this up because most Americans will be to lazy to read all of it. Parents be good. Kids be good. Monkey see monkey do type of thing.
Let's see: parents are hopping mad and marching because their kids' school expects the students to show up on time, properly dressed and have some manners. If I were a parent, I'd be mad, too!
It's a Charter School. They don't have to go. I do not agree with the fines, but, these kids have the public school options if they are not happy with the rules.
I also find it funny that when you take the teacher's union out of education, you get improved scores and graduation rates. Yet the teacher's union is upset about Charter schools. I thought teachers were supposed to cherish education of our youth. Seems to me that if the scores were better, they would embrace the opportunities for the children. Maybe Governor Walker was on to something.
The White Judge,
Didn't you hear, chewing gum is a gateway crime to murder. :)
This is shows how far down the hole we have gone. A school starts to fine students (their parents) for bad behavior and what do the parents do? Go complain to city hall that the schools are basically fining them for being trash parents. 200k in 5 dollar fines is a huge ammount and reaks of a systemic problem with their rules and enforcement model that needs corrective action. However, these fines, like getting speeding tickets, are 100% voluntary.
All kids need to learn rules, boundaries and responsibilities. If you do not enforce them on the kids in schools, then we have what we have in ur schools today. Kids dressing up like hookers and gang members, exposing their underwear and such.
When I was a kid in school, I had to wear my shirt tucked in with a belt on, dress shoes as well and short hair. We used book straps for our books not backpack where kids can tote in guns and drugs into the schools today along with all that junk food crap.
We really do need to make kids follow the rules or else you get what we have today in our society. disrespectful people that know no boundaries and ending up as another statistic in the penal system.
Rules are to be learned and followed, and parents shouldn't be bytching about it if they instilled good and decent values in their kids at home.
Oh Mrs. ime, YOU must be one of those poor lackluster teachers UNABLE to take hold of her class. My advice to you is to try harder. The world needs triers to. Try to do what every other teacher in the country does and keep your kids under control like a normal person who doesn't feel free to EXTORT children. Because that is exactly what it is. Extortion. ; ]
To the tune of 200,000 dollars to be exact.
Cheers
What makes you think teachers in charter schools aren't unionized? In Wisconsin, they all are. They belong to the same unions as all other public school teachers. And charter schools are not "private" - they are public schools set up to provide different curricula for those who can't cut it in the other public schools for whatever reasons.
The problem with "low test scores" and all that does not lie with teachers (including and especially the unionized ones) - it lies with parents. They think their offspring are the most precious china-dolls in the world. A teacher told me she had a student who never did homework and was flunking and the mom complained. The teacher told her it's because he won't do his homework and it's up to the mom to see he does it. She said she wouldn't because making him do so wasn't "good parenting." There you have it. Kids fail because of their parents. Maybe it's time to start firing parents.
@Jerry
If you read the article over again, you will see that it is a private school, but it is publicly funded. So parents should have the right to complain at city hall. Weather they have kids that go there or not, they are taxed to pay for these charter schools. So they should be entitled to spew off if they are upset.......
bravo!
Personally, I'd rather see corporal punishment over petty fines.
'bout time.
Good for this school. Gum chewing is one of the most annoying habits, especially people who snap gum and leave gum stuck on the bottom of seats. Be nice if they could implement a fine for rude cigarette smokers who insist on smoking at bus stops and other outdoor places where there are signs posted saying "no smoking."
I don't really mind them smoking outside, but I wish they'd stop using the entire world as their ashtray.
I've never once seen a bus stop with a no smoking sign what socialist world are you living in? If I see a do not smoke sign I don't smoke in that area but guess what it doesn't cover all the air outside... So just because there's a sign doesn't mean you won't have to deal with cigarette smoke. Also hey if there should be a fine for smokers there should be a fine for you drivers who drive cars or you riders who ride buses and such which put out even more toxic stuff in the air than cigarettes. Heck why not just ban all vehicles, factories, coal mines, nuclear reactors and so on hence reverting back to the stone age era because even though I'm a smoker I'm entitled to breathe fresh air. What goes for the goose goes for the gander sucka
Seriously you going to complain about smoking outdoors?.
I am not a smoker but for you to be complaining about smoking or other habits is stupid.
I hear people complaining about 2nd hand smoke or 3rd hand why not go to 20th and the kids misbehaving, it is good that schools are charging.
If it was my daughter and she brought me $300 worth of misbehaving there would be lots of things that would go away in her life like TV Internet Phone and other things that she loves some spanking as well. so all you liberals RETARDS SHUT THE FFFFFF UP and quit being part of the problem and for once start being part of the solution
In Japan there are No Smoking places outside, especially around major train stations and popular outdoor shopping malls. The fines can be up to $100!!!
BTW, Carlos...
Real tacky. I'm certain your child will grow up to be crude just like you.
Yes thats how we should solve all are problems isnt it take away peoples rights like you I would take away your freedom of speech cause your annoying and your poluting my breathing air with your bull @!$%# people have rights thats what makes this country great.
Wh atdrives me crazy is there is a no gum chewing policy at my childs school (elementary) but his teacher chews it every day. Way to discourage gum chewing...
@ the fab five
The year I graduated my school finally gave up on the "no cell phones at school" policy because they realized it was pretty pointless. This meant that if you took it out to check on the time or if it accidentally fell out of your pocket walking down the hall way the teachers couldn't take your phone up. It also meant that we could use them during lunch or between classes or during the break we got in the morning.
I brought that up because it reminded me of all the teachers I had that would stop teaching in the middle of class to send a text message or read one. I like to blame my ACT score on that. Though I know it's not true. :p
What? You had a teacher stop to check their messages or send one? I seriously do not believe it. And if truly so, then why didn't anyone do anything about it?
I don't like the idea of taking money out of peoples' pockets. Have the kids come in on weekends and scrub toilets or do landscaping, or make them pick up trash around the neighborhood. THAT sort of thing makes a bigger impression than 5 bucks.
But the school still has to pay someone to monitor that behavior on the weekends. It is for the safety of the student! All schools are run on a limited budget as is. Sounds like an inventive way to pay for a discipline intervention.
Eugene Saxe - Your idea is good, but wouldn't that means the school has to provide staffs or volunteers to supervise the students for these activities you suggested. I agree that making a student cleaning up chewing gums on the ground and other places will certainly teach that student a lesson, but I think it's much easier to pay a fine.
Whatever happened to sending kids to the principal's office or making them write "I will not chew gum in class" 200 times on a chalk board ala the Simpsons?
As a former Teacher, Willow you are absolutely right.
This is wrong and sends a very poor message. Besides isn;t this a form of embezzlement and and possibly Blackmail by those in a responsible position to keep these kids safe-----rather than teach them about Bribery?
Assuming that these schools are so privatized that the janitorial staff is non-union, I would agree that making the kids help clean the buildings would be better, but I would like to see the idea of consequences for bad behavior take root again in public schools, which is after all what charters are supposed to be.
No to the monetary fine. After so many demerits kick them out, problem solved. They have a long waiting list give someone else a chance. Kids number one complaint is that no one treats them like adults. So do so. Come to work late once too often they kick you out. Break the rules once too often they kick you out. Disrespect the boss or your co-workers they kick you out.
bluenycom: it's much easier to pay a fine.
And the easier something is, the less likely a lesson will be learned.
You'd be taking away union jobs. Everyone worrying about paying fine. They don't have to pay it, what's wrong with you people? Is it so hard to follow the rules. If the USA ran it's military like this we would be mowed down and run over. DISCIPLINE is not a bad idea people.
Eugene
The parents would scream louder about that than the fines. You would also run into problems with the unions for the kids taking away public sector union jobs. I am not kidding either. I worked for the Wisconsin Conservation Corps (WCC) in the early eighties. The program was meant to provide employment and to teach marketable skills. The problem was that the State workers union, forced limitations on what WCC workers could do by hammering the state with their contract provisions. When it was all said and done, the only thing the program was good for was creating minimum wage jobs for a 1 year duration.
Yes make the kids come in after school or on weekends to work for their punishment. I can see the articles and news stories now, "Chicago school forces inner city minority students do slave labor!" Do not kid yourself, this is what you would see and there would be an even greater outrage by parents, students and others involved than there are now.
If you can't afford the penalty... make sure the kid follows the rules of the school! Don't chew gum - won't kill ya! Be to class on time - duh! Wear clothes that are appropriate for the learning environment - NOT jail or strip club environment! I'm so tired of parents and society NOT allowing schools to establish & enforce basic rules that are beneficial to the learning of the student.
Some kids just do not have the attention span to follow rules of this nature 100% of the time. Kids are not miniature adults like you and I (at least, I am). Punishment should be appropriate to the offense.
Not a long enough attention span to dress appropriately, be on time to class, not chew gum, give me a break. I agree with Toni2754, it is time parents and society allow the school to establish and enforce the rules instead of constantly making excuses for these students. I am so tired of everyone blaming the school and teachers for the state of our educational system. We have no authority anymore because no one wants to hold students responsible for ANYTHING! We are falling apart because we now live in a society in which no one is held accountable, except for the teachers, who are doing the best they can with the limited resources and students(along with their parents) who refuse to take responsibility).
Toni, get over it and teach your own kids about R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Let's hold the students responsible then not the parents, charging a student a fine isnt gonna teach the student anything, cause the money will come from the parents not the student. How does the student learn from this. Use our tax dollars to pay the staff to do their jobs and supervise the children as they work around the school to learn from their mistakes. It worked for us when we were in school, quit trying to make money or save money instead of instill values in children
That's the problem silly shrinks, many parents aren't teaching their children respect, then not holding those children accountable when the school makes an attempt to.
fridget,
You hit the nail on the head on both of those posts!!!!
Silly Shrinks, is your name a commentary on school psychologists? IMO, they are the main cause of a lot of the problems with students. ("You can't discipline them; you will hurt their self-esteem.")
It makes perfect sence to fine them. rich or poor doesnt matter. if you are that incompetent of a parent your kid goes around breaking the rules all the time, and your sick of paying the fines for it, then take them out of school then. you are such a loser that, YOU, are not teaching them anything for how to even be a desent person. instead of complaining, how about you teach your kid how to not be an incompetent child/person while they grow up. if you bothered to do that, you wouldnt have been paying the fine that, your complaining about, to begin with.
As a substitute teacher, I applaud this school. After having to deal with students that could care less about a detention or a referral, having their parents have to shell out money for their misbehavior might get them to take a look at what their child is doing in school. As a father also, I would want to know when my daughter misbehaved so that the problem could also be addressed at home.
As a parent and my children came home with these fines, the money would be coming out of my children's pockets from the money they earned from doing chores. My children would learn that school is a place to get an education and not a place to misbehave.
PUBLIC education, FAPE, look them up, learn.
charter school -- it is their CHOICE to be there instead of a public school
Charter schools are NOT EXEMPT, look it up
LEARN
If the child can't follow the rules, then the child is not in the "least restrictive environment".
YOU LEARN.
Laws about free education do not apply to people willingly causing damage to the school or severely disrupting the educational process. Such things can and should be met with fines, community service, and/or other means we have to deal with lawbreakers. Gum might sound silly, but it damages a lot of property. A $5 fine for gum chewing does not make the school money. It offsets a large costs which should not ever be paid 100% by the taxpayer. It is our responsibility to pay reasonable expenses. It is not our job to pay for the damage your kid causes to the school. That is the type of ignorance that makes the good kids suffer in our schools.
Make whatever excuses you want. Until we hold kids and parents responsible for something more than just showing up, there will always be a very large number of kids who blow through our resources without caring about an education. Then we complain when there is not enough funding for the programs for the good kids.
Good kids use gum, too, but if you do not set rules that will keep your school on budget and the kids following directions, then you will not have the resources to give kids things they like to do, and that could make them more competitive in the workforce. There are far too many wimps out there who know nothing about what it really would take to make a good environment.
I am as much for educating the disabled/handicapped/mentally challenged as one can possibly be. But it does not do anyone any good to use "least restrictive environment" as an excuse to allow students, some of whom are capable of doing far better and some of whom are not, to engage in whatever disruptive/destructive behavior they choose and then hide behind the law to say that there can never be any consequences for it. This is one of many factors destroying our public schools, and encouraging everyone who can afford to remove their children and go the home school or private school route to do so. Without any of the children of the wealthy and influential in the ranks of their students, public schools will then inevitably be allowed to deteriorate even further in a viscious cycle which will eventually lead to my seeing old age in a world of a realtively tiny well-educated superelite and vast masses of the semi-literate incapable of holding even basic jobs. We are already well down this path.
Ok wealthy influential students wealthy kids are the worst of all the kids the baddest of the bad they have no good quality's to teach I mean they have all the money to do the bad things poor kids can't the car that mommy and daddy bought them to go to that sick ass party were every one gets wasted and last time I checked all the wealthy kids hang out with wait wait could it be other wealthykids I don't know if you know this but that's school there are different groups and they mostly in schools now not all of the wealthy kids are bad but most of the good influential kids are the poor ones who have to work hard for there education.
C/SSgt, maybe in the 5 years I have been out of high school things have changed, but in my school, the "wealthy kids" (not really wealthy just upper middle class) were the only thing keeping the school in the top 50% of test scores, and that was with the school keeping as many bad students and they legaly could from taking those tests. Did we party? Yes. Did we get drunk? Yes. You seem to think that the poor students (financially not academically) are the good students, I strongly disagree with that view point from personal experience and historical data. Its an ugly fact but people are poor for a reason, the number one indicator being education, be it a choice not to finish, or other life events that take away their ability to get an education.
Actions have consequences.
Unbelievable the people that complain about this. If your kids simply followed the rules, then there wouldn't be any issues now would there?
Unbelievable how many people THINK their kids follow the rules.
And constant rule following finally takes its toll on children, they end up not being critical thinkers which is very sad.
Also from a safety standpoint there are times when a child should not mind an adult who would cause him harm. Too much rule following dulls the child's intuition and puts them more at risk.
Good manners are fine, being a "sheeple" causes a lot of suffering in the long run.
Rubbish, don't compare chewing gum rules, dress code rules, or punctuality rules to some evil brainwashing scam that non-critical thinkers can't overcome.
Send any time in classrooms and you will see the reasons for these incredibly detailed rules. I would love to just set rules saying that kids need to be good productive class members and they should be clean, but the reality is that you have numerous kids whose parents tell them to not behave. The kids look for any way to bend the rules and not do their work. Strict rules are sometimes needed to make an atmosphere good kids can thrive in.
Some of you would get eaten alive in the classroom. You are so oblivious about real conditions, that it is not funny, if you do not see the value in well designed rules.
To me, what is so unbelievable is that so many people think that the rules don't, or shouldn't, apply to their children.
The thing about charter schools, even if they are publicly funded, is that you have the choice of attending or going to your neighborhood public school. If you don't like the policy, don't send your kid. I'm sure each parent that wanted to enroll their child got a handout on the policies and rules/consequences. You sign the enrollment form, you accept the whole package. You don't like it, don't sign.
Being a charter school does not exempt you from IDEA, as with private schools, and you would be suprised at the huge percentage of disciplinarily challenged children who fall under it's umbrella.
What's your point?
I'm not here to teach you the law, look it up.
I know what IDEA is, YOUR post was unclear.
Are you trying to say that if a child has a "disciplinary challenge" the school can't punish?
It MEANS they must provide a FREE and Appropriate Education. Apparently you don't know what IDEA is.
You don't need to understand, I'm not an expert in adult learning disabilities. When it doesn't hold up, you'll know you speak in ignorance.
Mr. Difficult, the education is still free, it's the discipline that isn't.
Mrdifficult is being just that. He's apparently one of those people who thinks that IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) means that if you can't behave, then you are automatically "disabled" and your disability becomes covered under the Act and that if the teacher can't deal with a child who is allowed to behave "however" then the teacher is an incompetent. Sadly, school districts are partially to blame as the more children they serve classified as disabled, the more funding they get, and many see it as being in their best interests to inflate the numbers of disabled children wildly. If you say anything to the contrary, then you are labelled as a hater who wants to see disabled kids locked away like they were fifty years ago, even if that is not your feeling at all.
One thing about charter schools (and parochial schools) is that if a child is very bad, they are kicked out and sent back to the regular public schools. This, in turn, allows the private schools to appear more effective and the "run of the mill" public schools fall farther behind.
In NYC, they started a h.s. within a h.s. for troublemakers. These kids did not want to learn in the schools they had been in, and the same thing held true in the satellite school. The school did not perform well on standardized tests and the city closed it down. That school was set up to fail.
It sounds like there is a huge waiting list for this particular school so it doesn't sound like parents are that displeased with the methods they use. I say keep up the good work...kids need to take responsibility for their actions. Life is full of rules we have to follow, let em' learn that!
And do the teachers and administrators have the same penalties? The principal at the last school I worked at was the worst violator for smoking just outside the side door...he would jump all over the kids and then sneak out there and light up. The kids (and teachers) thought he was the biggest hypocrite ever. It will not work if the teachers walk in the class chewing gum or across the parking lot with a cigarette hanging out of their faces.
Yes they do, just call the police, they'll issue them a ticket.
Not for chewing gum dumbass this makes me wonder if you were educated in school
Why are the parents blaming the school instead of their kids?
Isn't amazing that some parents their "baby" shouldn't have to be subjected to ALL the rules. Well, some day those same kids are going to look for a job and I wonder how they'll feel if the boss tells them no chewing gum. If the parents don't like it, they should take them out of the school, what a simple solution. The public school system is giving them a choice it seems.
Lousy headline. But, I am not surprised.
From the article: "...Students who earn four demerits within a two-week period receive a three-hour detention and the $5 fine..."
You have to consistently break the rules to get fined, not one incident.
If the children stopped chewing gum, which is the objective and not the five dollars, then the parents should realized they should have stopped their children themselves. Parents are notified when children receive reprimands. If parents don't teach manners, who's left?
RE: burden for poor families who are already struggling to get by.
Last I heard, charter schools were private and those that go to them have to be able to afford to send their kids there...
You heard wrong.
Charter schools are public schools which are operated by private organizations. There is no such thing as some sort of income requirement to attend them. They are largely funded by the public, although many do fundraising activities and additionally seek corporate sponsors, as do an increasing number of noncharter public schools.
not private public money and sponsors
Charter schools are just glorified public schools...
You would think that with a waiting list 3000 students long, the parents would kick their kids in the ass and tell them to not squander such a good educational opportunity.
I hate to see those kids that wear their pants down to their thighs ....
What's that all about .... ??
this is in the same city / mayor that put up camera to catch speeders in school zones and said it has nothing to do profits to the city , you drive away from the city it costs about $5.00 in tolls this doesn't surprise me at all how Rham supports this. I see this as the mentality of the typical chicago democrat (obama) take as much money as they can and put a twist on it we are helping you we know what you want cha ching if you don't beleive move to chicago and see how they treat their people
It's good to see that someone speaks up for those who speed through school zones, poor victims that they are. Actually, I hate for-profit camera set-ups so much that I agree with almost any criticism of them. I'm not big on toll roads, either. And I'm really not big on BHO, Rahm, or "the Chicago way". But I don't see this as being that similar to any of them. Why don't people care more about how their kids act at school? If their kids don't behave, they are not getting much of an education and are also keeping others from getting theirs.
Really? You cant help being late sometimes. Five dollars out of my pocket because the halls are crowed and there is a mass of slow moving people in front of me?
Yes you can't help but be late SOMETIMES! I work at school where students have been late 40 out of the 100 days of school, maybe a fine would teach them to arrive on time. Do you think you will keep your job if you are late all the time? No!
Really? The halls are too crowded? That's your excuse? I went to a MASSIVE school with crowded halls and I never had a problem with being tardy to class. I was never given detention in any form (lunch, after school, saturday) for being tardy or for any other reason. If a kid is late to class more than 3 times in TWO WEEKS (if you really read the article and not just the headline the fine is issued to "students who earn four demerits within a two-week period") then the issue is the kid- they obviously don't care enough to make it to class on time.
My father taught in a NYC vocational h.s. that was on 2 sides of a major street. Many of the students and teachers had to go down a few flights of stairs, cross the street, maybe go up a flight or two in the other building every day. This had to be done in 4 minutes and there were no crossing guards to assist them across the street.
Discipline starts at home and the vast majority of American Families don't do it at home. If I did follow the rules at home I got a spanking. In school if I didn't follow the rules I had trash pickup duty at lunch. If I don't follow the rules now I go to jail or pay hundreds of dollars. It only gets worse growing up so if parents would do their job at home it won't be any problem.
Great idea,200,000 dollars equate to 40,000 violations of the rules.It sounds like there's alot of kids that don't give a crap about rules..
Yeah, worked great, right?
Mrdiff- just imagine how many there would be without the penalty.
Lots more than just 40,000 violations. According to the article, a student has to accumulate a certain number of violations (and per another poster that number is 4) over a two-week period before being assessed the $5 fine. Using the number 4, that's 160,000 violations.
The comment from the parent that the $5 fine is forcing low-income parents to choose between paying the rent and keeping the child in school is bogus. If your child behaves and follows the simple rules, no fine. If you don't like the rules, which are basically just manners that promote a learning environment, it costs nothing to go elsewhere. Do the school and the teachers a favor and free the space for a child who really wants to learn.
Most of the low-income parents could make up for it by switching to generic cigs, foregoing a new tat or body piercing for awhile, or switching back to malt liquor from Michelob.
Actually, if each violation earns a student 1 demerit then there were a lot more than 40,000 violations. 1 detention (which is 4 demerits) costs $5 and more than 12 detentions means the student has to go to a special class that costs $140. Since we don't know the amount of the $200,000 that comes from the cost of the special class, if we go on just the cost of detention then there are 40,000 detentions served, which means there are 160,000 infractions. Plus, we don't know the number of infractions commited every biweek that don't lead to dententions (meaning the student earned 3 demerits or less in the 2 week time frame). The only way to really know if the system works is to compare detention rates from before this policy was inacted to detention rates now.
Overall, I like the policy. You don't have to pay the fines if you aren't doing anything wrong. It's similar to driving- you don't fear a ticket if you obey the traffic laws. Don't like it? Don't go to the charter school and don't drive. It's a choice. We all have to follow rules we don't always like or agree with- it's life.
$200,000 is 40,000 fines equals 160,000 violations. I think they should report this year's total fines to see if things have changed at all. Because this seems too extensive for the amount of students that actually attend these High Schools. They obviously don't care. $5.00 isn't the problem. It's the students racking up hundreds of dollars. High school students should be able to be responsible for themselves in school.
Good!!! Don't do what you are told not to do. Someone has to set some standard. The government has taken rights from families to teach right from wrong someone has to set a standard. If you don't like the fine don't chew gum problem solved. Nice job to the principle.
Why can't kids just follow the rules? The issue here isn't that the school is charging this fee. The issue is parents who are not holding their children accountable to follow the rules. I tell my children that I don't always agree with the rules of their school, but that doesn't mean we just disregard them. We either stand up to try and change them, or accept them and move on with our lives.
Why can't the parents follow the rule. I'll tell you why, because the don't bother to go to parent/teacher meetings or ask their kids what the rules are. They hear a one sided,"its not fair argument", from their kid after they are in trouble and the parents come running to the defense instead of slapping the kid upside the head and saying don't do that again.
Its the parents responsibility to raise the kids not the school.
Chewing gum doesn't hurt anyone. Why is it banned in the first place? Kids could be doing much worse things than chewing gum imo. Worry about something that is really important.
Wolfe, you can go ahead and pay for the damage done by chewing gum but as for me...no thanks! Chewing gum is a huge issue in schools and we the tax payers are paying for it (like it or not). There are other reasons not to have it in school such as it being a distraction for the one that is chewing it and for others around them.