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Subscribe to RSSA Virginia dad was charged with bringing his kids to school late too many times. Msnbc's Tamron Hall talks with the father Mark Denicore.
Detention for chronically late students is common, but what about parents in court because of their frequently tardy children? That’s happened to some parents in Loudoun County, Va.
Loudoun County Public Schools officials say that it’s about the welfare of the children and that the late arrivals disrupt class. At least one parent thinks the school district is trying to criminalize something the statutes don't permit.
Mark Denicore and his wife appeared in court in Loudoun County Monday morning for allegedly failing to get their three children to school on time.
“We are the first to admit we are not perfect and our kids are not perfect, but we are doing our very best and don't think in this case it should be criminal charges,” Denicore said.
Read original story on NBCWashington.com
According to Loudoun County Public Schools, between one and 30 minutes late is tardy. The Denicore children have been tardy at least 30 times this year alone -- almost one out of every three days, according to Wayde Byard, of the school district. It falls under the state’s truancy code, he said.
"The student comes in, has to put their coat away, their lunch away, gets seated -- it's a disruption for everybody who is there on time and ready to learn,” Byard said. “It’s a distraction affecting their learning."
“If they were bringing criminal charges against every parent who had a child that was disruptive in school, the courthouses would be full,” Denicore said.
Morning commutes can be lengthy, but the Denicores half a mile away from the elementary school -- less than a two-minute drive.
"We definitely don't have the traffic excuse that some people have,” Denicore said. “I wish we did, but we don’t.”
Denicore admitted he knew the court summons was coming but said there are other important things to teach children besides timeliness, like eating a good breakfast and tying their own shoes.
“It’s like herding cats trying to get them all heading in the right direction,” Denicore said.
“How can we work with you?” Byard said. “In some cases, principals have actually gone to a student’s house and helped them get ready and taken them to school. We have attendance officers who will work with students to get them ready, to get them into a routine, map things out so they’re ready to come to school.”
The Denicores’ trial date is March 14. The violation is a Class 3 misdemeanor.
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a little extreme but I can understand the school being frustrated to the point of taking action
Absolutely should not happen. Now the government is going to arrest parents for bad parenting? Slippery slope if there ever was one.
The school should be happy the kids are coming and have parents that love them and take care of them.
How about egotistical parents - "look at my child coming in". The school is correct. It is a disruption for the rest of the class.
Here is a suggestion though. Have th parents wait in the hallway with their children until the morning recess. Don't let the parents just ditch the kids and let the staff tend the kids. After the parents get the kids settled in their seats after recess they can be permitted to go to their workplace. Let's see how long the bosses put up the tardiness of the parents before the bosses do something about it.
Who wants to bet they make it to court on time?
If the parents really love them and are taking care of them the parents would have them to school on time so the kids could get the complete lesson and not just the last few minutes.
How is this any more of a slippery slope to parenting than mandating that the schools have to get the kids to a certain level of education? How can the teachers educate if the kids aren't even at school? How can the states mandate that kids have to stay in school until a minimum age and minimum grade?
Stop the Short Yellow Bus, i want to get off.
Hmmm, here's a thought...while teaching your children to tie their shoes, why not also teach them the importance of getting to school on time? Why not teach them to get organized the night before and get a morning routine? No parent is perfect, true, but the millions of us who get our kids ready on time and do not face such charges have figured it out sooooo...? And might I add I have 3 kids who are ALL special needs. Their dad gets them ready in time for the bus to get them or for me to pick them up for school.
A criminal charge is a bit extreme but in our kids student handbook it does outline what is considered tardy and truent and the consequences it brings. I just don't think that there have been such extreme cases until now which is why the news is reporting it.
Wake up 30 min. earlier and see what happens!
the millions of us who get our kids ready on time and do not face such charges have figured it out sooooo>
And when **** hits the fan for a couple of years and your life turns upside down and your kids start to be tardy allot. Then don't get upset when you get charged for truancy then. Better yet hope your kid(S) don't rebel and start to ditch school allot or you will find does not matter if you took him to school or not and did not know he or she decided not to attend. Its alright in tell you are the one being charged. In the end you would end up sounding just like this guy.
Actually no. I have read the guidelines set in my kids handbooks so there will be no surprises. And come on now...these kids are averaging 1 out of 3 days being tardy. No, we have a schedule outlined in the morning. And if there is a chance the kids will be running late (which I will not lie has happened...ONCE or TWICE in the 5 years that my eldest has been going to school) I will be up front and notify the school (which is part of the guidelines set in the handbook of the school). Again, my husband and I are not perfect but our kids have not been tardy at all this entire school year. It's called organziation and having a schedule.
And if you read the article it does not sound like this family is turned upside down. His reasoning is that it's better to teach your children how to tie shoes or have them have eat a good breakfast. That's all well and good. Like I said before, get everyone up 30 min. earlier and see how it goes. There is a simple fix for this situation.
I just read your post below about your situation Leatherneck. Please understand your situation sounds a hell of a lot worse than this family's situation. As I stated, I have 3 special needs kids. My husband works nights and gets to sleep about 1:00 AM only to get up at 6:00 AM to get the kids ready for school. I get to work at 5:00 AM so I am not there to assist...it is just him. Yes he is tired but that is what being a parent is all about...putting yourself second when it comes to your kids. I admit we are lucky in that someone is home all the time with our kids which is not the case with loads of people but you get a handle on the situation and make the best of it. That is what you need to do to teach your kids responsiblity for their actions (or lack thereof).
Sounds like a pair of lazy parents. If it takes to much time to eat breakfast and tie shoes then get everyone moving earlier. It is important for children to learn the value of being on time because some day they will be on their own and I don't think any job will be ok with them being late all the time.
It's about holding the parents accountable. It's not the children making themselves late, but mom & dad.
Maybe mommy & daddy need to take Responsibility 101 and Time Management 101.
ONE MINUTE is considerd tardy?
I would be interested to know how late they were one out of three days. Were they one minute late thirty times? Were they 15 minutes late 30 times?
Of course this being msn, I'm not surprised they left out a lot of the facts. That's kind of thier thing.
these children should all be taken away by the State, put in foster homes, have their names changed, ; Parents should all be sterilized to prevent any future offspring; also sent to re-education camps, shock therapy should be mandatory , this is as bad as murder, child molestation and dope use, we must get our children to the indoctrination centers on timed. SIEGE HEIL.
Alil, it doesn't matter if it's one minute or 30. If they need to catch a bus they miss it. By rights the kids should be at least a few minutes early, earlier is much better. If they don't learn it now it will be hard for them to keep jobs. Even self employed people must be on time. There are few things I dislike more than someone late for a meeting that has been set up. It's wasting my time and gives me the impression that they don't feel my time is important.
Maybe the reason it is criminal is because it isn't an occasional tardines but a regular and frequent event. Couple that with the fact that it is tough to educate somebody that isn't in the classroom. Toss in the loss of education time to the on-time students while the tardy ones get settled. Then factor in the mandate on the school systems to get the brats to a certain level of proficiency.
These are all complications brought on by inconsiderate parents who subconsciously like the attention they and their children get by being habitually late.
Okay, I was rooting for the parents until I read the article. Now I'm on the side of the school. The father's excuse is no excuse at all. It just sounds like laziness and lack of discipline.
A half mile away? Come on!
Discipline? The parents would end up in court for that too.
dirtydog200: Yes discipline! If that's what it take to get a parent to do his or her job. It is unfortunate that the schools need to resort to this type of discipline but it's because some parents don't see the importance of getting their kids to school on time or at all.
and how much does this cost the tax payers.....
Lots. Considering that most peoples' work and financial ethics are set by the time they are of majority age, these kids are being led down the wrong path. People such as thes parents are typically late to work and that is only tolerated for so long. When one can't hold long term employment that usually leads to the welfare and food stamp lines. And who funds those programs?
I think this should happen more. Parents have to be held accountable. Geez, they can't even get them to school on time, and they only live a half mile away....these must be the most disorganized people on the planet.
How is it that in over 3 months of consistently being tardy, no one thought "hey, let's wake the kids up 30 minutes earlier"?
Children need to be taught routines. Going to school and being on time is a routine that helps the children now and in their entire life times. It shows them they need to be on time and be respectful of the other children in the classrooms. Trust me when they get older and and if they get jobs being on time is a necessity!!! The parents need to be held accountable for their children and if extreme measures need to be taken-GO FOR IT. Seems like nothing else is working.
Although it seems a bit extreme to bring criminal charges, I have to say I do agree with the school on this one. It sounds like the everyone in the house just needs to learn a little discipline. Get up a few minutes earlier, have school-bags packed and waiting by the front door, plan school lunches on the weekend ect, ect. You can prepare and eat a healthy breakfast fairly quickly, a bowl of oatmeal takes about a minute to cook, throw in some dried fruit, almonds or walnuts and you have a very nourishing, healthy breakfast. Also, who drives their kids half a mile to school? At that distance, they should be walking. My three-year-old is perfectly happy to walk nearly a mile to the playground almost every day, your school-aged children can walk half a mile to get to school.
What are these parents actually being charged with, "Contributing to the Truancy of a Minor"? Regardless of the charge, I fail to see how this kind of action by the school will solve the problem. Might I suggest a bake sale to promote the purchase of alarm clocks?
Ridiculous.
What ever people, tardy, late, not at school should never =Criminal charges or any charges what so ever. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 40 years ago, 100 years ago. Nothing like this ever happened. So why now is it such a big ****ing deal.
My kid is late to school, not at school, or has to leave early from school on a daily basis. Why you ask. Well lets get the facts.
1. Being late to School:
My wife has a sever medical condition it hard for her to get up in the morning to take my son to school that is only a 1 mile away. School starts at 7:30am but you can drop your kid off as early as 7:05am. Yet trying to get my wife up, to get my son up. So he can get ready for school is like pulling teeth. Its hard for her. You ask why I don't, well I would if I could, but my problem is that I have to be out the door heading into work by 6:50am or I will get tied up in traffic and be late for work. How many day do you think you can be late to work and not get fired. I have already asked my work and told them of my situation, yet say they cant accommodate me and that I have to be at work on time.
2. Being not at school:
My son also has medical condition, he gets sick really easy. School rules cant go to school running a fever. Yet my kidgets low grade fevers like every other day. My kid has missed allotof days of school last year and this year do to we have had to keep him home do to he was running a low or high fever. The school has told us that they are looking to bring me and my wife up on truancy for the amount of school days he has missed and being late. So I told his school fine from this day on sick/Fever or not me and my wife would make sure my kid is at school.
They told me by school policy if he is running a fever my kid cant be at school. I told them too ****ingbad. From here on out, I will make you responsible for deciding if my kid should be sent home since you are the ones telling me your trying to bring me up on Truancy charges so **** you. That was about two weeks ago and let me tell you, the school has had to send my child home out of thoses 10 days the school has sent my child home 6 of them.
Having to leave Early:
Do to my kid getting sick allot he has to go to the doctor allot, yet most apointments we can get are during school hours do to thats the only times available. So the school was getting on are case about that **** too. Told them then you find us a doctor that will take my kid as a patient and get him a appointment not during school hours. If not shut the **** up.
Do you people know that if your charged with this, you will most likely end up in jail or have to pay a nice size fine too. Most people like me would lose there job and not be able to pay the fine. So what do you get as the end result. A broken family.
NICE GOING PEOPLE you just destroyed a Family over BS....
Your reasons are legitimate. As I stated in my earlier post, I was all for the father until I read the article. He doesn't have a reason or even an excuse, just "It's like herding cats."
That is lack of discipline and just laziness. If he had your reasons I would side with him. He doesn't. He and his daughters have fallen into a pattern of bad habits and lack of respect for the rest of the students. And it sets a pattern of behaviour for his children that they will carry into employment situations that will ensure they will not hold a job... if they manage to get one in the future.
Obviously by your "spellin" you missed a lot of school too. You whiney sizzle chest. Always with the excuses. We all have problems that we contend with. Suck it up and do your job.
screminmimi: Even if my reasons are legitimate it does not matter to the school and by that matter a Judge. It can go any way guilty or not, do to a judge is a person too and he or she might not find my reasons legitimate.
I read the article and know from first hand experience that its difficult to get not only yourself ready for work, but to get your kid(S) up and ready for school too or even the wife.
We dont know when the father goes or comes home from work or even if he works. Lets say he works, but works a 3:00PM to say 11:00 PM takes his 1 hour to get home. So that would be 12:00am, then he takes a shower, eats and gets to bed as fast as possible so lets make that 01:30am. By the time it takes him to enter rem sleep lets say that is about 2:00am and now he has to get back up say 6:30am to get the kids up for school. So he only got about 4-1/2 hours of rest. I don't know about you but I would be tired as **** everyday do that.
Thing about this article is that we don't know the mans or his wifes daily routine. So to past judgment and charge them with Truancy is BS. We all cant be perfect and at least his kids do make it to school.
Hell the other day I was reading about a single mom who was being charged with this too, her kid is a special needs child and its been very hard for her to get her kid on time to school. I have not seen anything else about this, but someone told me she was charged and sent to jail. Her kid is now in custody of the state...=BS
Truancy laws need to be taken off the book, all they do is causes more harm then good.
Smoot Mahooty: I grew up with dyslexia and back in my day kids like me were put into special education classes with drooling kids and could not attend normal classes. While everyone learned how to spell, ready and wright. I was leaning how to take shapes and put them into order so it match a picture. So **** off pal.
learned how to spell, read and wright
Write
LN68: Thank you Right, Wright and Write. All sound the same, but mean total different things... Get them mixed up from time to time.
Give my a break! I was a single Mom most of my Children's school years. And I got them to school on time. Not only should you get your kids to school on time and show respect for the other kids and the school. You should be putting your childrens needs before your own, because it's extremely embarrassing for the children to come into a class tardy and have all the other kids in the class look at them and to be late 1 out of 3 days which is inexcusable, I am sure this is very traumatic for the kids. And since these children are obviously not at fault because of their age - how do you bring it home to these parents to get their act together? Well sometimes you got to give it where it belongs. On the parents. Hopefully the parents will learn from this and get the kids to school on time. It can only help the kids for years to come and to learn that being on time is important.
Well... terrible excuses number 1.. Number 2.. learn how to spell, and retake a grammar class... Occasionally my husband is sick and it takes a pretty long time for him to get out of bed. Just wake up earlier, as if that's hard. My mother was a single mother, AND we were a famly of 5. We almost always got to school on time. If ou only have 1 kid and can't get them to school.. disgraceful.
Here, let me help you:
1. You get up earlier, wake your son up [earlier] yourself, and get your wife out of bed. If your wife can't be responsible enough to take her own child to school then talk to a neighbor that has kids going to the same school. Not sure where you live but what about school buses?
2. I'm guessing that since your wife can't get out of bed to take her child to school, that she doesn't work either? If so, why can't she pick the kid up when he's sick? Oooops, that's right. If she can't be bother to bring her child to school, she can't be bother to pick him up either. And you statement:
You do realize the your child is suppose to be going to school, not a baby sitter?
3. This is an easy one. Get a doctors note to give to the school.
And now your options are:
Julie-401527:
Win the lottery, hire a nanny and chauffeur=Dont have extra $ to buy a ticket to hope I win.
Home school. Of which I wouldn't recommend due to your writing and spelling.= Cant, Requirements (LAWS) too much and you still can be brought up on charges of not sending your kid to Public/Private school.
Bus not an option do to the closest bus stop near where I live is half way between my home and the school.
A wife and a child so sick they can not function sets off a whole lot of red flags here. Maybe you should consider a responsible adult brought into your home to parent and nurse those that are there. There are tons of homeless people out there for no reason of their own, that would be very appreciative of a bed and meal to nanny your household for you. It would help you, your wife and your child.
rjw007: wife and a child so sick they can not function sets off a whole lot of red flags here. Really Then I guess you never came across someone with a life long medical condition then. I take it no one in your family has any major medical problems that is Genetic. Well for me that is a very true statement. For my wife side of the family no, hers as I have found out the hard way is very much real.
There are tons of homeless people out there for no reason of their own, that would be very appreciative of a bed and meal to nanny your household for you. Yea ok sorry I dont trust anyone unless I know them for at least a few years.
Contact your church, school or local food bank. Homeless people may very well have a child in your child's class. They may very well sit next to you in church. There are good decent people out there whom are homeless. People in the 30's took in people they knew that were having a hard time and gave them a chance to be safe, a full belly and place to lay their heads. Once a person gets the basics they can believe in themselves again and get back on their feet. My best friend for 4 decades is someone my folks took in . She has returned the favor for others. If the household needs help to raise their kids, good gravy help someone else to get it. I took in my son's friend for a few months till he and his parents could cool down and mend their relationship. They were all lucky and get along fine. He knew he had to follow my rules or a no go. I had surgery and needed help. Gee guess what there were people there more than happy to help me out.
don't you know we now live in a police state.....all march in line...do what we are told....
This was on the local news last night. What a whiny arse!!
These kids are late 2-3 times a week, it disrupts the class when they come in (three of them, creating a problem in three classrooms), they live half a mile from the school in a very nice area (no reason Daddy has to drive them) and he's got a load of excuses for why they can't make it to school on time. How about getting up a little earlier and being a little more organized?
He's not the only one that's been summoned to court for this -- apparently, there are several summons a month for the habitual offenders.
Good idea to make parents criminals so they can get fired from their job and stay home to see that kids get to the state institutions. Also they can draw unemployment or welfare that could have funded more schools. (not!)
Who gets fired for a Class 3 misdemeanor. Hell - If his job is that severe - he should most definitely have the meager amount of discipline needed to get his kids to school on time. Or how about trying to save his kids some embarrassment and finger pointing?
I bet the wifey has humongous knockers and a real minx in the sack. I'd be late too!!
UHHHHH hey dude man like maybe you could get up earlier so the kids will be on time. Wow just a thought dude so like when they grow up and have to be at work on time they can do it or maybe they could just keep gettin canned from one job after another but at least they will know how to tie their shoes Uh huh! O.k. dude or like maybe move closer or totally like live at the school man!
Plain and simple ....about time the schools make the parents take some responsibility ! So who cares if the children are late? Life experiences..... when they keep showing up for work in the years ahead and are fired, I suppose the parents will just say, who cares....... I think these and many other parents need to set an example of. HOORAH for the schools !
Failures as parents, and apparently too lazy to even give a sh!t. Don't breed if you are not up to being responsible to your children and to your community.
How about teaching your kids a little discipline and organization? Oh yeah, that might take a little discipline and organization on your part. Wouldn't want to bother with that. It is obvious that these parents JUST DON"T CARE. Why should the rest of the parents and children who obviously are able to understand how to get to school on time have their day disrupted? How about teaching your childern to respect others?
The school should start locking the door and sending these children BACK HOME for the day to be home schooled.
I just received a warning from the Board of Education. My son decided to skip a total of 21 days this year. My husband and I both work. He gets up at 5 and is out the door at 6:30. I get up at 5:30, wake up our son at 6 and leave for work at 7. He doesn't have to be at school until 7:50.
I get home an hour and a half AFTER he is home from school and my husband is usually there shortly after that. We haven't received any calls and if they sent a notice before this to the house our son disposed of it (he is home before we are).
We've sentenced him to community service on the weekends for the rest of the school year and have requested that his 1st, 3rd and 6th hour teachers email us if he is not in class but if he misses any more school we will be facing the same charges.
Fair? Well he is our child and we are responsible for him but at 17 (state law here is the kids have to be in school until 18) what can you really do? It is illegal to beat him, grounding him does no good because he knows his Dad and I will face the consequences here.
In your case, you should not have to face the consequences of your almost grown up son's actions. He should bear all the responsibility for himself.
There should be a measure of common sense applied to these cases.
screminmimi: Rule of Law does not =common sense
Really leatherneck? Kids do eventually have to account for their own actions. Just not in elementary school where the transportation and delivery lies on the responsibility of the PARENTS!!! It's a 3rd Class Midemeanor - All he is going to experience is some well deserved embarrassment - God knows he's fed enough servings of it to his kids (Every 3rd dish to be exact)!
There you have it!! Parenting. The adults actually run the household and raise their child. Your child will be able to function in the world. He will be able to handle someone telling him "no". He will actually understand that the whole world was not put here for his convenience . I went on the belief that if my child didn't tell me he hated me from time to time, I wasn't doing a good job. I told him that only he could decide if he loved me or not, but only I could decide how pleasant his home life was going to be ihof he couldn't do what he needed to do to be a decent human being. He is an adult now. He doesn't tolerate drama in his life. Gainfully employed. Owns his home. No illegitimate kids. Life can be good when an effort is put in to it.
If parents are not willing or able to see that their kids get to school then remove them from the household and place them with people that would be able to "parent" that child. Parents just plain refuse to "parent" and not only the child but all of us get to pay the price for it.
This is stupid and ridiculous -- BY ALL PARTIES INVOLVED!
Mike, California has had a law similar to what rjw007 describes since 2010. http://theheaddesk.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/new-anti-truancy-law-passes-in-california/
This dad needs to attend some parenting classes at the least and/or should hire someone in the morning. Of course, there is the novel idea that the kids WALK to a school that is a half mile away. My kids walked thru snow/rain/heat and their school was a shade under a mile away. They complained but that was too darn bad. No bus for under a mile. Didn't kill them and they were not late.
I'm not at all for my children (elementary age) to walking half a mile to school. Unfortunately it only takes out of site to get kidnapped and murdered. Glad it didn't kill your kids, but unfortunately many parents weren't so lucky. My Grandmammy and Grandpappy walked thru snow/rain/heat and add 2 or 3 miles to that back in the day. But fortunately that extreme is no longer necessary. My kids are all grown w/degrees and living productive healthy lives and they all get to work on time!!
Leathernuts; always with the excuses. You haven't walked in my shoes so don't tell me you had it harder. You sound like a real momma's boy.
It is just as easy to be 10 minutes early as 10 minutes late. The lesson here is to learn early the importance of doing what you are suppose to be doing. Apparently the parents have not learned this. 6 Blocks is walking distance. When I was young I walked 2 miles to school every day up hill, both ways.
home school 'em - get that $1500.00 a semester that the county/city gets to do it for you. they will get a better education ...
It's called discipline, organization, planning. Get the kids to bed early, get them up early. Have lunches packed the night before, the outfits laid out and ready the night before, and schoolbooks etc, neatly in a pile . Get them up, washed, fed and out the door in plenty of time. And if a kid loiters or is lollygagging, maybe some negative consequences will ensue.
As a parent, I know what time my children have to be out of the house to make it to school on time by either bus, or by me taking them to school. The parents in the article are lazy. They only thing they are teaching their children is rudeness. These children will never be on time for anything if things don't change. The parents deserve charges.