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TREMONTON, Utah - A 14-year-old boy was killed Monday when the miniature cannon he was playing with accidentally fired, fatally shooting him in the face, police said.
Robby Ostberg was shot at about 7:30 a.m. Monday by an unidentified projectile, police said. He and his older brother had been playing video games in his living room when the 14-year-old picked up the cannon, reported NBC affiliate KSL.com.
"We're waiting for the medical examiner's report to help us determine what type of object may have been in the cannon," Tremonton Police Chief David Nance told msnbc.com, saying authorities don't know yet what caused the injury. "We're still investigating and trying to determine what happened."
The boy died at the scene of severe head injuries, reported KSL.com.
Read the full story on KSL.com
The boys' father was in a back bedroom at the time. No charges have been filed in the accident, Nance told msnbc.com, and he does not anticipate that any will be.
The replica is based on an 18th Century naval cannon, reported KSL.com. The barrel is about 6 inches long, according to Nance, and the cannon sits on a wood base.
Police told KSL the cannon was designed to be able to fire 50-caliber rounds, but a friend of Robby Ostberg told the station that while the 14-year-old fooled around with the cannon, he didn't use real ammunition.
"He doesn't put a bullet in there. He puts little tin foil balls in there," Cameron Kunsman said.
The friend's mother, Danielle Kunsman, told The Salt Lake City Tribune that Robby Ostberg was "very talented, mechanically," and was always repairing neighbors' electronic devices.
"He was willing to help anybody," Kunsman said. "He helped my daughter fix her TV. My husband gave him a chain saw that [was missing parts], and that kid got that thing running again. A neighbor said [Ostberg] was just out here, helping ... change his tires. If it was broken, he’d fix it."
Robby Ostberg was high school age, but was not enrolled at the local school, Nance told msnbc.com. He did not elaborate.
The boy's father is an Army veteran, reported Salt Lake City's ABC4.com.
A neighbor of the Ostbergs told ABC4 replica cannons are known to go off accidentally.
"All it takes is for something to slip and the hammer to drop on it and it will go boom," Trevor Steinlicht said. "Depending on how much gun powder you put in it, it will go through a wall, kill a rabbit or small game."
A preliminary report from the medical examiner is expected in the next couple of days, Nance told msnbc.com.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
Leave a Comment:
Sounds like it was a tiny cannon. Must have been something sharp or went through an eye or something.
6 inch barrel, that's more than like 90% of handguns
Yeah that is true, though I was speaking in terms of cannons, not handguns. I am just thinkng that the opening must be tiny, so if not a bullet, what did he have in there.
Article states it was a .50 cal which is anything but tiny. 1/2 inch diameter is as big as it gets for hand guns and rifles
It may have been a 50 cal cannon and is NOT a TOY!
The article said the cannon was designed to fire .50 Cal bullets.
And as a side note, I don't think a working cannon, however small, should be called a toy. It uses real gunpowder for God's sake.
dieselbug - Right on. It also depends on how much powder was behind the projectile...
the article is misleading most have no Bullet , There might be one out there but all the ones I have ever seen or read fact sheet on...they use 50 cal ball , you also need gun powder.
Pretty much the same loading as the real cannon.its not like you put a round in chamber at all
I agree he built a .50 cal (for those that don't know that's huge for a handgun it is usually a rifle) cannon that is a person killer........it is not a toy and should have been treated like any other weapon.
"All it takes is for something to slip and the hammer to drop on it and it will go boom..."
Actually, no.
You need a combustion source. A firecracker has enough to do the job given a projectile of appropriate mass and size, but it doesn't seem likely that was used. In any event, the "how" of this tragedy is still being determined.
What *is* known is that a 14 year-old got his hands on a firearm.
From a gun owner to gun owners: be responsible. Your right to own and bear arms doesn't preclude responsibility...in this case, to ensure your weapons are inaccessible to youngsters.
shartorius,
you know , it's made out too be that 14 year old can not use a gun safe , hunt safe, shoot safe ....it all comes down too the 14 yr old and safety ..I know when I was 14 most my friends had shotguns and hunted..not just one but couple dozen. I didn't know of any of them getting shot or shooting somebody....Guns are safe just need IQ and clear mind. This kids sounded far from slow, it's an accident , and like most some misjudgement lead too it.Yes SAD , but if he was in car and had blowout from a bald tire (that we know is unsafe)and dies would we scream "Cars are bad get rid of them"
Holy @!$%#! We have become such a "child proof" society that adults can't get the ketchup bottle open yet some fool leaves a loaded cannon in his livingroom. WTF?
Yeah, I totally agree, it depends on the kid... this 14 year old kid sounded highly capable of handling a gun or a toy cannon. No telling how he shot himself in the face. But a responsible 8-year old should be able to handle a little ol' Uzi without shooting himself in the face... oops, um, never mind. Of course, had their parents known they would handle these weapons, it would never have... um... that is... well, this story proves nothing! Nothing, I say!!!
Brian-531678,
Good points.
And yes, there are responsible 14 year-olds out there who I'd trust with a firearm more than some 40 year-olds I know of.
However, for good or bad, things have changed. We as gun owners find ourselves pariahs and lunatics from the "ban it all" crowd...especially when tragic events like this occur.
Their arguments aren't all crazy...any more than those from gun owners are all valid.
The end result is that anyone under the age of 18 in today's society should never be alone with any firearm. It could also be argued that anyone under the age of 21 should never be alone with a firearm that can be concealed (handguns).
As I've said, the world has changed. People are--in general and not without exceptions--much "younger" than their counterparts of the same age in years' past.
There have to be some "rules to the road" to follow. This may mean that some mature 14 year-olds don't get the same level of trust as they deserve...but it also means that society has a yardstick by which to regulate maturity when it comes to potentially deadly devices.
unfreakenreal
Natural selection is alive and well.
What exactly are these cannons used for?? I've never heard of one. 50 Cal is huge.
Brian - I hunted deer with a 12 gauge at age 14, and did so quite carefully. My youngest (now 15 years old) has sat with me in the stand for the last 2 years an an "apprentice hunter".
That being said, 3 kids about 11 to 13 years old went hunting deer with shotguns. As their story goes, they were crossing a barbed wire fence. The first kid went over OK. The second kid tripped and fell, discharging his weapon into the back of his friend from only a few feet away. The third kid ran for help, but the victim died in the arms of his friend before help could get to him. These 3 kids were my friends from school.
Bad things do happen with guns, especially with unsupervised kids. I'm a proud gun owner and fight for my rights to continue as such. But I also recognize the common sense approach to kids and firearms. In my case, the shooter had his finger on the trigger when he fell, and the safety was off, and a round was in the chamber. I would hope a responsible adult would make sure none of these things would have happened if they were present. But no one was around, and Freddie is dead.
Darwin award winner
.50 cal... These things can take down a Deer, not just a rabbit. People should keep these locked up just like any other weapon. Or if they have them on display there should be no way of finding the powder. Poor planning on their part. Sorry for their loss.
Doesn't look like a proper toy for a kid, as well as a working, shooting cannon replica. These toys can kill. Just as it happened.
Prayer to the family. And the manufacturer for that matter. Lesson here: Practice general safety when handling things which use gun powder. Especially one capable of shooting projectiles from a barrel.
A motion will be filed by the National Cannon Association proclaiming that cannons don't kill people - people kill people. The aluminum foil used for the cannon ball would have been much safer if used for its designed purpose - hats for their members.
Thoughts , blessings and prayers to his family and friends.....
I remember several projects in metal shop and wood shop that were weapons related, and this was okay with the instructors. I recall more than one tiny cannon being built, may have been from a kit. Also several flintlock guns; cross bows; etc. I made a big hunting knife, as our family was not really into guns and hunting.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out this tiny cannon was a shop project of the father. As I recall the ones made by my friends used black powder and a ball bearing for a cannonball. They worked fine, since they were shot off from time to time to tick off the teachers, and sometimes at the football homecoming games. I'm amazed there weren't more problems, in consideration of this storyline.
I have never been a huge proponent of gun ownership, but I understand that it is every American's right. That being said, I believe that anyone owning a gun, no matter the circumstances, should be held responsible for any and all harm that is caused by said gun. That way, if your child shoots someone or if it accidentally goes off while cleaning and kills someone else, then it is ultimately YOUR fault for not keeping it locked up, or cleaning it in an unsafe manner. Maybe that would make gun owners a little more concious of what could happen and maybe they wouldn't be so careless with their firearms. Other than having to take an IQ test prior to purchase, it's the only solution I can come up with.
There are minature canons made for the purpose of start/finish signals for boat racing. We had one in our boat club, and it took cartridges (blanks), but did not shoot a projectile. However, I would NEVER put my face in front of one of these things! The pressure behind the blank is enough to send anything full force into someone! (Brandon Lee's death as an example)
Let's count how many people thought that a blank was a harmless noisemaker. Most of those small cannons use blank shotgun shells. As this child proved, they are deadly.
For anyone wondering how or who wants to donate any money for Robby's funeral here is the info: You can go to any Wells Fargo, walk up to the desk, it's under Allen Ostberg "Robby donation account" to donate money. For any info on how to Donate you can call Wells Fargo at 1-435-257-5374. Please Donate. Thank you
Suprised that no one is asking why this replica was loaded with gunpowder while on display in the living room. Seems like it should not be powdered if not in use. At least I wouldn't think people would leave something dangerous laying around their house with kids present. If people will remember Brandon Lee was killed by a non-bullet projectile driven by the force of a powder explosion. The kid might as well have been shoving tinfoil balls down the barrel of a gun loaded with blanks. And if this cannon was designed to take bullets it's defacto a gun. A single shot gun, but a gun non the less.
Actually, Brandon Lee was killed by real gunfire; a live round had somehow gotten loaded into a prop gun for aq particular scene....
Jon Erik Hexum was the actor that killed himself by firing a bland gun against his head, the powder charge broke his sjull and propelled the bone fragments into his brain...
And oh yeah, about the cannon; replicated from the 1700's, it would need a powder charge, followed by the projectile, but most importantly, it would require a DELIBERATELY lit fuse in order to fire! Cannons that need an independent ignition source do NOT go off by themselves...
My condolences to the family, but apparently this kid was not instructed properly as to the workings of a firearm...
I guess you can't fix stupid. Who in the hell leaves a loaded cannon of any kind around children?
I dunno, stupid. Maybe the kid made the thing deadly.
From the article:
Sounds like it wasn't the first time the 14 year old picked up the cannon. The statement alone gives me the impression the young man actually had been shooting the cannon in the past by saying, "he didn't use REAL ammunition"...
Blackbeard, that's who.
14 is old enough to have been trained. The adult if they were trained themselves, would know to teach that anything you can load with a projectile capable of injuring is to be treated as a firearm or dangerous weapon. They therefore would have taught the kid that each and everytime you touch the weapon the first thing you do is make sure it is safe - meaning unloaded, on safety, never pointed at anyone. So either he loaded it or someone left a loaded weapon out so another could handle it. The guilty party here is the adult who brought or allowed a weapon in the house wihtout securing it and teaching every one else to handle it properly or keep it locked so they cannot. People who don't follow these principles will sometimes pay the price. Always sad to see a person get hurt when it was so avoidable.
J Peterman - Agreed. They indicated he was very capable of being mechanical. Possibly his curiosity (and potential lack of consequence) got the best of him.
It has nothing to be with being "trained". Kids do stupid stuff. When I was fourteen I used to go buy gunpowder from the local hardware store . That had to be around 1974. We didn´t reload shells with it. Hell we made pipe bombs and blew stuff up. That was real stupid and I knew all about the gun rules, but I was a stupid kid. And a lucky one
Marty - Ahh, memories...
Kids do that stuff today and they are hauled off to juvenile detention and medicated because of a diagnosis!
Darwin wins again.
This is why you don't make firearms into TOYS.
The Author of the story called it a 'toy' It is not a childs toy and was never built for children. It is a 'replica' of a naval cannon.. Add gunpowder and a 50 cal ball and you've got yourself a miniature muzzle loader.. Basically a muzzleloading handgun attached to a wooden base...
Letting a kid play with the gunpowder and having access to it is the parents fault... Who do you think feels worse about this? the general public or the parents? They are living a parents nightmare right now.
What is a parent supposed to do with an inquisitive young Male? Young males are known to do stupid things.... We made our own Cannons as kids, with old plumbing pipes as the barrel, a wood base, drill a hole in the threaded end cap, insert a firecracker which any kid could purchase from any fireworks stand. Screw on the back and ram down some wadding and place anything you wanted down the barrel... Sand was like bird shot.. Ball bearings were like bullets....
Did our parents know? They didn't have a clue, only that we were playing with fireworks... A good old American tradition.
Nowhere in the article did the author call it a toy. He called it a miniature and a replica cannon. Even if it was originally made as a non-firing replica, it obviously was modified to fire. Just need an ignition source such as a percussion cap and a way to deliver the ignition from it to the main charge. My .50 cal. musket will generate a foot-ton of muzzle energy with enough black powder. You should only add powder and a projectile to a muzzle loader if you plan to fire it very soon, as there is no easy way to check to see if it is actually loaded.
You are right. The Author didn't call it a TOY... Ebeenezr did along with many others...
This kid got into things and it sounds like his parents knew he was 'playing' with it... it sounds like it was a regular thing he messed around with... This time it killed him.
This isn't a TOY... It's a god damn Cannon! This is why people shouldn't leave weapons where kids can't get them.
the reporters and editors called it a toy. They are incompetent when writing about weapons or intentionally sensationalizing. After all, there is no "word sheriff" who will beat on them for sensationalizing. So when reading from reporters don't take it literally. They are playing with ya.
Richard "What is a parent supposed to do with an inquisitive young Male?"
encourage them to do things that wont result in a blown off face.
that would be a good start.
now, im not sure what you do with an inquisitive young female...surely, we cant treat them the same.
OK - let me rephrase it: This is why you don't make Firearms into replica TOYS.
Jesus people - what the hell did you think people would use a replica for? Home Defense? NO! It's to frakkin' PLAY WITH.
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T MAKE FIREARMS INTO TOYS.
And I support the right to own guns - just not the right of idiots to own guns without knowing how to frikkin' own them safely. It's the main reason I don't own one myself - I don't frikkin' trust that nothing bad would ever happen with a weapon in my home.
Guns are made for one reason: to kill something. Handguns are made to kill people, assault rifles are made to kill people, rifles and shotguns are made to kill people and animals. Cannons are made to KILL PEOPLE. Not to be played with.
Jessica- Inquisitive young females play with other kinds of guns that shoot a different type of projectile... Wait.. So do inquisitive young males except that gun they are playing with is attached to them and many times attached to it is the inquisitive young female..
Richard... your friends call you Dick, right ? Appropriate last name as well. ;o)
Ebeneezer, my guns were made to make a profit for the manufacturer. They may have been designed with killing in mind. Mine are used to shoot targets only, not people or animals. They are never kept loaded or easily accessible. I'm sure that replica cannon was not made with killing people in mind.
So you are a self described idiot?
Yes, Bassai. Yes I am. (didn't you read my comment?)
Lesson being, don't point a cannon at your face?
Sort of like that chick who walked into an airplane propeller?
I think you see the real point here. Evolution means the stupid people don't live long enough to breed, and it's done it's job.
Gotnorice your comment shows that you've no class!
Not really, the kid was 14. That's old enough to realize what a cannon is.
Darwin wins again, thankfully.
Or jumping on a moving train, slipping, and losing both your legs?
These situations leave me to wonder: what the heck were this KIDS thinking?
A) Who doesn't realize that a replica cannon is still capable of causing damage?
B) Who doesn't know where a freakin propeller is on an airplane? even if it is at night?
C) Who doesn't realize that playing around moving trains is a BAD idea?
Some peoples kids, I swear.
these kids* not this kids. Bleh I didn't catch that one in time.
I'm 40. I remember 14 like it was yesterday. I was invincible. Nothing could hurt or kill me. That stuff happened to other kids. I hunted, I fished, I played with knives, fireworks and pipe bombs. Still have all my parts, too. All kids do stupid things. ALL KIDS. Some get hurt, some die. Some learn from the mistakes of others. This poor kid is no different than any other guy here. Except he was unlucky. No Darwin crap. He wasn't stupid. He did a stupid thing. Can any of the guys on here over the age* of 3 say they've never done anything stupid?
*Age in years, not mentality.
It's too bad - I feel for his family. We do stupid things all the time and luckily most of us live to make note and modify our behavior. This poor kid won't get that chance. So sad.
It's nice to see a bit of empathy and compassion, instead of just immediately jumping to the Darwin awards comments. This kid made a mistake, he was a kid, at only 14 no one can say they never did stupid stuff as a kid or teen. Common sense tells us not to point stuff at our face, sure, but common sense should tell us not to text while driving....something many people do.
I feel bad for his family, I can't imagine the guilt the father is going through. It was stupid, it was a mistake, but the cost for it was too high.
Why was the cannon prepped with gunpowder? Was it just sitting around with the powder in it, or did the kid load it with powder and a projectile?
when I read the article, there seemed to be an indication the kid sometimes loaded it himself with ball of tinfoil. I don't intend to second guess anything here.
Why are the police having such a tough time investigating this. Pretty sure myth busters already explained it when they accidentally put a cannon ball through a neighbor's wall
Boy talk about shooting yourself in the ? It is always a shame to read about this kind of avoidable accident. Anyone who is stupid to keep this kind of a potentially dangerous weapon where children have access to it is a moron of the first degree. Here is hoping he is called to account for this tragic accident.
you know , it's made out too be that 14 year old can not use a gun safe , hunt safe, shoot safe ....it all comes down too the 14 yr old and safety ..I know when I was 14 most my friends had shotguns and hunted..not just one but couple dozen. I didn't know of any of them getting shot or shooting somebody....Guns are safe just need IQ and clear mind. This kids sounded far from slow, it's an accident , and like most some misjudgement lead too it.Yes SAD , but if he was in car and had blowout from a bald tire (that we know is unsafe)and dies would we scream "Cars are bad get rid of them"
He wasn't a small child, the boy was 14 years old.
I never suggested getting rid of cannons, just being responsible with potentially lethal weapons stored in the home. I've been around guns my whole life and spent time as an Artiilery Section Chief. So all I was suggesting is if you know it's loaded don't leave it where an inexperienced person can get their hands on it!
Exactly. Cannons don't kill. People with cannons kill.
So it goes
Even a tin foil ball of .50 cal (that's 1/2 inch across) would penetrate your face if fired at close range. Shame on the dad for letting it out of his sight.
Why, a twelve year old should be smart enough to know better.
Especially when the 12 year old is 14
I was hunting at an age younger than that. Was 14 year olds smarter or more responsible 31 years ago?
"Was 14 year olds smarter or more responsible 31 years ago?"
YES.
WeAllHaveOpinions: Yep, because most of the dumb kids died by not wearing bike helmets (etc, add your over-safety point here), and the smart ones weren't medicated for being "hyper".
If you're into stories about children being murdered or accidentally killed, MSNBC is your number one source. Do you suppose anybody at MSNBSTOOPID ever stops to consider that they are using the death of children to provide excitement and entertainment to the mindless masses?
You obviously don't like MSNBC. So don't read it. Go read Fox or whatever else suits you. It is a story and might help someone else not do it. Go away if you don't like the place you are.
Why? Are you excited? You are here posting, so I am going to take a guess and say "yes" that you are part of the mindless masses...
Somthing is wrong with this story
I'm with you. There's more going on here.
Do tell dear Watson.
Right???? I blame the family cat. He had it in for the dog but the kid got in the way.
Give me a break.
I think something amiss here, too. Sounds like it was all primed and ready to rock & roll.
YEAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Really sad. My condolences go out to the family and friends.
R.I.P. Robby Ostberg.
Out of respect to the family...... God give you comfort and friends in your hours of despair. sad. :(
yes, o bold one. i do agree with your sentiment, however. :->
Mark: Now that you're here I will switch up the bold print.... Yikes. I threw a stick yesterday and you came back. I also think I misspelled threw yesterday with through.... Mia Culpa
Good grief, a TOY CANNON. What was a kid doing with a loaded whatever and
pointing a at his face? Something is missing here and it's not just his head.
Time to ban toy cannons, or at least have a ten day waiting period and a background check. Darwinism~~
Nah, let's ban kids.
I just love the Darwinism crowd - thanks for the laugh!
Moral of the story - do not play with guns.
I wonder what the NRA will say if a legislator tries to ban or restrict the sale of "A TOY CANNON" ?????????
.50 caliber,pretty big round.I agree that a packed down wad of tin foil is pretty hard though we'll have to wait to see what was in the weapon..
Anything that can fire a 50 caliber round should not be called a "toy."
When my sons were young, they were never allowed to have "toy" guns. Their water guns were those big bulbous ones that don't really look like guns. When they were old enough, their first guns were 22's. I wanted them to know that guns are NOT toys.
I made gunpowder out of drug store chemicals when I was a kid. I fooled around with it, made a grenade out of two one-inch bolts and one nut. They had about as much force as a .22 shell or a firecracker. My dad gave me his .22 rifle when I was ten years old. I never came close to hurting myself or anyone else.
Laura - How old were your sons when they were allowed to have their 22's? Reason I am asking is this kid was 14 years old. I was hunting deer by age 14 with large caliber weapons.
Just curious. I understand mental capacity trumps age...
I took a super soaker tapped a small can of compressed air into it (about 5 psi) then filled it with gasoline/coleman fuel mix and got a flame thrower that shoots 50 ft streams of fire.......
It works also by just pumping it up normal but the fire doesnt shoot as far or as long. I get 5-8 second burts with the compressed air.....vs a 2 second stream.
Azrancher, why don't you just post on here the pictures of how you built such a stupid thing! OMG you are dumb! Why would you even say something like that on a website that goes all over the world? Maybe you should think before you write something down! I'm sure you just gave lots of kids some ideas and they are probably building one of those right this moment!
Wally, I wouldn't worry much about Azrancher & his modified gun. I saw something like this on TV before. It isn't new.
Think of it like this... Kids all over the world were NOT jumping off cliffs in the 1980's after watching the Roadrunner show & that dumb coyote always going over the edge, falling a thousand feet, then being back in the chase 2 seconds later.
Concernedone, They were probably 12 or 13.
When I was a kids one of my friend's little brothers shot their mother in the face because he thought he was holding a water gun. That's what caused me to not let my kids have any toys that looked like real guns. They needed to know that all guns are dangerous if used incorrectly.
WHAT a HORRIFIC TRAGEDY !!
sympathies to the FAMILY of this SWEET CHILD !
R.I.P.
It's a tragic loss to the family..... God has a plan that we don't understand..... Peace be with this family, Godspeed to the lost loved one.
God is a kid with a magnifying glass,,,hovering over an ant hill. Random acts of violence, followed by a break for lunch.
Sad story. Not sure if the parents left it loaded or if the kid was smart enough to load it and got careless.
Still sad for the parents.
By that age I could reload black powder weapons and owned several rifles and shotguns, a different time I must admit. My dad bought me my first rifle when I was ten,via mail order from Monkey Wards.
Shame on most of you here posting.... this was a child who lost their life, not a funny place to post your warped humor.....
Is this your first time on the Vine? This is nothing compared to some of the other posts/stories. I suggest you get thicker skin or don't read the comments.
Yourekidding: So that's what you tell yourself when discarding your morals...... Thicker skin... sad. Why not show a bit of compassion and go against the mob?
Charles Darwin
The article describes the "cannon" as having a hammer? That's a gun folks, cannons are lit with a fuse not a hammer and blasting cap.
FYI. A cannon is a gun. In military use, the term "gun" refers primarily to direct fire weapons that capitalize on their velocity for penetration or range. In modern parlance, these weapons are breech-loaded and built primarily for long range fire with a low or almost flat ballistic arc. A variation is the howitzer or gun-howitzer designed to offer the ability to fire both low or high-angle ballistic arcs. In this use, example guns include naval guns. A less strict application of the word is to identify one artillery weapon system or non-machine gun projectile armament on aircraft.
The word cannon is retained in some cases for the actual gun tube but not the weapon system. The title gunner is applied to the member of the team charged with operating, aiming, and firing a gun.
On a modern U. S. Artillery piece it is the Number 1 Cannoneer that fires it not the Gunner.
You are correct mate, but a cannon is still a gun. "Cannoneer" is a word for an artillery gunner, first recorded in the 16th century. Current titles for a Soldier in the 13B career field within the US Army is "Cannon Crewmember", but more commonly referred to by the shorter "Cannoneer". An artillery Private is known as a Kanonier in German and Polish, a Kanonnier in Dutch, and a Канонир in Russian; today these would likely be rendered in English as "Gunner."
Cheers.
AKA gun bunnies. :p
"....today these would likely be rendered in English as "Gun Bunnies" ". There , fixed it. ;o)
When they said toy cannon I was thinking of the ones I played with, you know with the spring that shot the cannon ball from the Marx play sets. Not a fifty cal gun.