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Alex Brandon / AP
Revelers party on Bourbon Street in the French Quarter during Mardi Gras celebrations in New Orleans in February 2006.
Juveniles 16 and under would have to be off New Orleans' streets by 8 p.m. every night under legislation under consideration by the City Council.
A vote on a proposal to extend a curfew for juveniles in the French Quarter across to the entire city, initially scheduled for Thursday, has been postponed until Feb. 2.
The proposed ordinance has drawn vociferous opposition from community and black activists and civil rights groups. They contend it is discriminatory, could lead to more racial profiling of black youngsters by police and doesn’t address the root causes of youth violence.
Tracie Washington, a lawyer with the Louisiana Justice Institute, a civil rights legal advocacy organization, said studies have shown that curfews don’t have the desired effect of reducing teen crime.
“This is stupid. You can pass this curfew, and we’re still going to have this problem,” she told msnbc.com.
Expansion of existing curfew
New Orleans has actually had a citywide curfew since 1994, when murders were happening at the rate of nearly one a day. The 1994 ordinance had set curfew times for those 16 and under to 8 p.m. on weeknights and 11 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays.
On Jan. 5, the City Council voted 6-0 to amend the ordinance to make it 8 p.m. every night in the tourist-heavy French Quarter and the hip Faubourg Marigny neighborhood.
Now, the council is weighing whether to extend the 8 p.m. curfew time citywide.
“The existing citywide juvenile curfew law was passed in 1994 at the request of then-Mayor Marc Morial and Police Superintendent Richard Pennington. At that time, the curfew law was a component of a comprehensive strategy to reduce crime in neighborhoods and protect our city's young people,” City Council member Kristin Gisleson Palmer, who authored the amended French Quarter ordinance, wrote in an op-ed column Wednesday. “Today, at a similar time of escalating crime and neighborhood violence, it is our duty as elected leaders to stand up, be bold and consider any and all methods that will keep our families and our communities safe.”
Flozell Daniels Jr., president and CEO of the Foundation for Louisiana, a grantmaking philanthropic organization, and Dana Kaplan, executive director for the Juvenile Justice Project of Louisiana, an organization that seeks reforms in the justice system, argued against the proposal in a separate op-ed column.
“We share the council's commitment to reducing the crime that is plaguing our city, and to protecting our youth. However, we must work for substantive solutions, based on what is demonstrated will work,” they wrote.
One of the strictest
An 8 p.m. curfew citywide would give New Orleans one of the strictest curfew laws in the nation. Violators would be taken to a holding center until they are picked up by a parent. The ordinance provides for several exceptions, such as for youths who are with a parent or guardian, going to or from work, or are involved in an emergency.
The ACLU of Louisiana, in an open letter signed by other city civil right leaders and legal advocates, said such a proposal could hurt local businesses and “drastically reduce the amount of free time teenagers have outside of school, limiting their ability to date, go to the movies, or attend nighttime Mardi Gras parades,” wwltv.com reported.
Black teens could also face unfair treatment, the ACLU said, according to wwltv.com.
“In New Orleans, African Americans are arrested for curfew violations at a rate 19 times greater than are white youth. There is, then, a significant risk that some teens will be disproportionately and unfairly affected by this change in the law.”
Washington, of the Louisiana Justice Institute, says the proposed citywide curfew does nothing to address the scarcity of teen resources and recreational outlets, such as movie theaters and bowling alleys.
“Our children are dying. We had two murders last night. Twelve murders in first 12 days of the year. Children are getting shot sitting inside their homes, sitting on their front porches. I live in a war zone,” she said.
“If you are really concerned about health safety and welfare of juveniles, then do something. “
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Why would an age-based curfew be "racist"?
How about tying the curfew to school attendance and performance?
Rapes murders and thieving by these teen thugs and gangs. I thought the ACLU was concerned about constitutional rights not the prom? ''“drastically reduce the amount of free time teenagers have outside of school, limiting their ability to date, go to the movies, or attend nighttime Mardi Gras parades,” The city of new orleans has a responsibility to it's citizens and visitors safety.
It seems that "rights" trumps reasonable response to community problems.
Wouldn't it be great to have "community leaders" and "parents' come out in support of controlling out of control delinquents, no matter the color?
If adjustments need to be made for working teens, great. But if the problems are not being controlled by their parents, the community needs to limit their exposure to these miscreants. And yes, a few can spoil it for everyone - seems to be the American way what with 40,000 new laws alone on 1/1/12.
Could it be because there are more black kids living in this area? Or perhaps more black people break this particular law? Why is it always a race thing? If you are counting the number of black vs white arrests for curfew violations in a predominantly black neighborhood it kind of makes sense that more black kids would be arrested than white kids.
Yeah that is probably true... classic case of a government entity passing a law (or in this case an ordinance) that wont fix a problem just for the sake of passing a law in an attempt to fix a problem.
Maybe educate your children... try parenting and teaching your kids right from wrong, take a little responsibility for what your child is doing and where your child is at and who your child is hanging out with... Stop relying on the government to raise your kids for you!
Well that really sucks and I am sorry to hear that... but if your kids are getting shot inside their homes and sitting on their front porches, I really don't see how keeping them home more often is going to help or hurt the problem.
Oh man, I love this. Read this crap above and digest it. So, what these ass-hole black activists and civil right groups are really saying is - the black youngsters are unwilling to follow the law and don't give a rat's ass about what it says.
You are something else, idiots. Yup, discrimination card again. Yeah, you are truly the biggest jerks in this country.
They said Blacks are arrested 19% more times than White's. No No tell me, let me guess why. Wait it's coming. Ahhh I figured it out now.
Oh heck....why stop at imposing a curfew?...lets just impose martial law just to be on the safe side (sic).
It's a great law...kids that age should not be out without a parent at that time anyway. I would never let my son out after 8 pm alone. And I love the racist play here...if the law applies to everyone then it can not be racist...it just means more of one race makes the choice to break the law than another if it affects one drastically more than another...Maybe their parents should take some responsibility for their kids instead of tossing them out on the streets to get rid of them for a while.
What good, caring, intelligent parent, black, white, or purple, would want their 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16 year old roaming the French Quarter at night?
This should be a non-issue.
Any steps to try and reduce any violence, in any group, are immediately dubbed, "racist". Why? Because the same groups do most of the violent crime. Check the DOJ statistics.
Gnomesayin'? Yuz feels me? Git reel!
I love the fact that this would interfere with under 16 year olds dating. I understand the complaint. It would mean delaying that welfare baby another 3 years.
I mean seriously, who would want their under 16 kids "dating" in the first place.
I love the people who think the parents actually give a damn, in most cases theyre even worse than the kids.
i live in new orleans and it's disgusting on bourbon street and it's nothing but kids!
how about no one under 18? that makes more sense! and this idiots are protesting
saying it's racist all the while there is a shooting in the black community every day!
this is what's wrong with cities with poor black communites! where are the black
leaders? where is Sharpton and Jackson? NO Where! as usual! only when they can
get tv time and exposure to push their racist liberal agenda! this is why Rep. Jefferson
felt he could steal from the people who voted for him and even after convicted they
put him back in office! what is wrong with these people that they don't see the left
and democrats use these liberal programs to use them and keep them down and
to keep them in power and make them rich? why would you want your kid to have
the freedom to be on a street where there is drinking, drugs and obscene behavior
only fit for adults? wonder why kids have such bad behavior at such a young age!
This issue with black teens will now cause all of them to defy law/curfew on purpose. The parents should teach them to obey and stay at home. What politically correct rights are being denied...NONE.
If the parents were doing there job then there would be no need for a curfew. School age kids should not be out past dark on a school night unless they are working or have some other valid reason.
parents??? don't you mean sperm and egg donors.
You want get any arguments from me!
I have serious doubts about such a curfew being imposed in the draconian manner proposed. What about the kid who has to go to the library for some homework? (Yes, some kids still do that - homework and go to the library.). Or the kid who has a part time evening after work job. What does such a kid do? I realize that the city has a difficult job, but this approach is not likely to have a good outcome. If New Orleans wants to impose a curfew on kids under 16 (better yet, 18), why not consider closing time for stores so that kids can work in the evening? Might have an added benefit of helping get a few families off welfare, and teaching some youth the value of work. (Yes, I am an optomist.)
The article did address this: "The ordinance provides for several exceptions, such as for youths who are with a parent or guardian, going to or from work, or are involved in an emergency."
You're right. I did overlook that. Shame on me for trying to read too fast.
Thanks for catching that and pointing it out to me. Thanks again.
also most states I know have laws preventing kids from working until they are 16...as for going to the library when I was a kid many many years ago my parents actually took me there and picked me up from there at a set time...not a hard thing to work out if you actually want to be a parent.
Though you can get an education, there aren't many libraries on Bourbon Street.
From a constitutional law perspective, I don't think this can fly if brought before the SCOTUS. The only reason minors are treated differently under the law is because it has been previously determined by the court that states have a "vested interest" in protecting children. If the children are perpetrating violence against others, it's not clear this would work in the court's eyes. That's sort of like saying a particular ethnic group can't go out at night because they cause too much trouble. Iffy at best.
True, and I have yet to see a curfew imposed on minors that was enforced as it was written. They generally do not work. I understand the need to cut down on local crime rates, but if this ordinance has been in affect since 1994, and not enforced, then what is the real point? Local politicians being able to say that they tried to do something, whether it works or not? Wouldn't it also be prudent to ask at what point in time did the crime rates increase, and how does that correlate to teens being in public after dark? It should also be asked if teens are the primary perps in the spike of the crime rates?
brent and others what really is at stake here is the beloved French Quarters, plain and simple-nothing more nothing less.....and here lays the problem and the racial bais----of keeping a certain segment out of the French Quarter. I am native of new orleans know well the crime issues, but this isn't going to solve that problem..
Thanks for the input, owwjr.
owwjr, if that certain segment is little kids, I am all for keeping them out. But then again...perhaps I could get me a 12 to 14 year old girl drunk...hmmm....I mean that is what you are for isn't it? What do you think little teens are going to be doing at night? Bible study?
No, I am being sarcastic, but what the hell is all this BS about anyway. UNDER 16, have your but at home. Simple. Want to go all freek? Wait until 16.
Wow, I can't even imagine why anyone would be against this.
You can't have this many blacks in one area without having an enomous crime rate. The curfew is badly needed and needs to be enforced.
LMAO
What is there to do in the French Quarter after 8:00 that does not involve drinking?
Rolling drunk people. You can do it sober.
Rolling drunks...man that is funny....LMAO...
This law would be unfair, criminals need the cover of darkness to commit burglaries and muggings to feed their family and drug habits. In the summer it sometimes does not get dark until about 9pm. It should be changed to at least midnight to allow these fine citizens to earn their living as the rest of us do.
Curfews are so stupid. Just the government telling you when you can and can't be out.
Thank you for your definition of the word "curfew". I would have never figured it out.
Good thing I turn 17 at the end of April. That way if I ever go to New Orleans, I won't have to deal with this nonsense
Funny, all you racist pigs say that poor black kids need jobs to learn a work ethic and then you impose an 8 pm curfew so they can't be out working.
Calm down there. I'm missing the part of the proposed legislation that only applies to "poor black kids." And with gang and crime rates where they are in the New Orleans area, I'd assume most responsible parents would want their children off the streets and home by 8PM. There should be an exception for the handful of 16 year olds that are actually working past 8PM, and can prove it, but I hardly think that is the majority of the kids that this law aims to PROTECT. (<--keyword).
Well - perhaps you should actually read the article - focus on the part where they talk about exceptions the racist pigs included for kids going to/from work
I'm talking about the racist pigs posting comments about the article.
merckx, sometimes it is what it is. And in this case, it looks like the racist pigs are right. You don't have to like it, but in this case, it looks like they are right. A curfew is in order.
Bad idea. I noticed that school activities were not one of the listed "exceptions". So no football games? Basketball? School plays? Because the kids would be violating curfew as soon as they returned home (or technically, even at school).
This 8 p.m. time is bad enough on a school night ... but on a weekend? So they are telling kids, sorry, all you can do with your life is work. No dating, no movies, no dinners, no nothing?
And, since much of this violence seems to be "in home" or "drive by" I hardly see it helping.
I think 10PM would be appropriate. But the law itself makes sense. We are talking about ages 16 and under here. Why do they need to be roaming the streets? Especially with the crime and gang problems that plague this city?
There is a difference between "roaming the streets" and traveling back and forth from home and activities.
Perhaps a "no loitering" rule would be better.
They can do just about anything really with an adult with them. Go to a school event and have your parent pick you up from the school when it ends.Go out with the family for a nice family dinner...dating...well you should not be doing that before 16 anyway but if you must a parent can always go on the date with you.
Beth, I don't know how old you are, but I would not let my kids out to any of the above school events with out me or with out another parent. What is so hard about kids having an adult with them if they went out at night?
MOS ... It doesn't matter how old I am, suffice to say I've been an adult and responsible parent for a long time. My kids, yes those UNDER 16, have managed to successfully get themselves to and from school and club activities and stay out of trouble.
As I said earlier, I could see a "no loitering" law. THAT makes sense. But to tell high school kids they can't come home from a school event by themselves, especially on a weekend game night, is ridiculous. Many don't have handy parents to pick them up or to attend each game. You know a lot of kids have parents who must actually WORK.
So, is the kid better off at home by themselves (doing who knows what?) .. or able to attend a school function, go to a movie, be at a boys and girls club, or any other of a myriad of activities JUST because an adult isn't available to pick them up? That's very short sighted of you.
And besides all of that, there is really little evidence it keeps them safe (after all, there is still violence in NO, as the quote said IN THE HOME, and there is a supposed curfew already in place).
Here is some reading material for you.
http://www.boston.com/community/moms/blogs/child_caring/2009/12/city-imposed_curfews_do_they_really_keep_kids_safe.html
This is an interesting debate on the issue:
http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/topic_details.php?topicID=114
And, as a side note, these are REASONABLE times discussed ... not 8 p.m. on weekends!
Oh, to DSLODGE, on the dating thing ... do you truly think that 16 and older is where dating is? I suggest you look at teen pregnancy rates. And yes, most teens get pregnant AT HOME (showing the efficacy of the curfew).
Here we go again. It's a Racial thing Blacks say. Why is it Racial?? It means Black and White and Mexicans and Hmong and so on. So why is it Racial?????????????????? Rights groups should butt the Hell out. They are trying to prevent New Orleans from becoming again what it was before Katrina.
It's already pre Katrina Tarzan. I wish the storm had wiped it completely off the map along with the people slummed in there
Obviously you are a total idiot, Merckx...it says there is an exception for teens going to and from work...almost every cerfew i have ever heard of had this exception
but then i am just a racist pig
Let the school they attend get involved. If they are exceptional in class, issue them a pass, every six weeks, which would extend the hours to 10:00 PM on school nights and midnight on the weekends. If they are not meeting expectations at school, enforce the 8PM curfew 7 days a week.
why should schools get involved with what teenagers do off school property after school hours with activities that have nothing to do with school? That's what PARENTS are for
JC, the question is this....WHY DO KIDS UNDER 16 NEED TO BE OUT AFTER 8? What the hell? Are people complaining because the little kids slinging dope will be replaced by people that will do real jail time if caught? Will the kids be interfering with mom trying to get her freak on?
Really, what the hell does a kid do when out at night without a parent?
8pm is very early, but they know what type of problems they are experiencing. The kids with decent parents will abide by the law, even if it is unfair, the street people will not and the kids will be punished. The problems that NO has are more complex than anything a law will address. Poverty, ignorance, poor schools, bad parenting, no hope for the future, images of adults behaving badly, and a fauled police department. The problems in NO are just a manifestation of the way that our society operates. Take a good look because your town or city might be next. If you are will to settle for the lowest common demonator (sp) that is exactly what you are going to get. I think the city is trying to do something, but like most political actions they react on emotion and not science. Looking for the easy way (lol+NO) and not really willing to do the very, very hard work that it take to make a stable community. Been there, Kids on the streets at 2:00 AM cops with in a hundred feet--no police action. Kids are trying to make a living--cops know this-Kids are OK Cops are OK, its just the way it is in that city.
Roger, how is 8pm very early. After homework and a bit of family time, followed by a shower before bed, what time are teens expected to go to bed? No later than 10 I would say.
How are the kids making a living at 2:00 in the morning? What are the selling or doing for their money?
Saying, "its just the way it is in that city" is wrong, but to say anything against the "culture" will label you a racist. Well a very good friend of mine that imigrated from Ghana once said, "some people practice and promote failure". It soundslike N.O. is one of those cities and people like Mayor "chocolate city" Nagin are greatly responsible.
define parent... someone who cares for and raises their offspring until the day they are old enough to leave and start a life/career of their own. not baby daddy, baby momma... america is at a crossroads. can we survive. check your history books folks. no nation has survived doing what were are doing. even the mighty roman empire.
Judgement Day - I raised three children my curfew was 10 o'clock - in some areas 8 o'clock is still light especially summertime - I also worked after school when I was 15 and would get home after 9 o'clock - I now have grandchildren who work after school say at McDonalds or waitressing - 8 o'clock is ridiculous
Barbara, if you would have stayed at home and studied more, your reading comprehension might be better. Re read the article and see what it says about exceptions for working.
The way I read the law, the curfew is for unescorted youths. Minor's with parents are allowed in the area.
"In New Orleans, African Americans are arrested for curfew violations at a rate 19 times greater than are white youth. " I guess that is what happens when you live as Mayor Ray Nagin's put it "Chocolate New Orleans, You can't have New Orleans no other way (sic)."
My wife and I looked forward every year to attend the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival, it was a nice end of winter vacation (we live in PA, and have attended for the past dozen years). But after being robbed several years ago and accosted by groups of teenagers the past couple of years, we would not give them money, we do not plan to visit New Orleans again. Yes we are white and they were black.
Vegas has a weekend curfew on the strip,unaccompanied minors are not allowed after 11:00 pm on the weekends.
The little bastards are allowed to run amok through the rest of the city, however so long as the tourists don't get their throats cut it's all good.
Perhaps NO can achieve a compromise like this.