Yes, bullying happens to pretty much everyone but I am not so sure that many of us adults can completely wrap our heads around how bullying has evolved with usage of cell phones, Internet, and social networks. It's a whole new ball game for kids today and it is a lot easier to be brutally mean when one is behind a keyboard. Just read some more of these comment threads on other subjects to get an idea of how harsh people can be, and those were most likely written by adults with children close in age to the poor girl in the article who should know better.

@Lauara: So true!

Sadly, this child found a permanent solution to a temporary problem. We need to teach our children kindness and compassion, rather than hatred and rage!

@Cott: Does anyone advocate suicide? WOW!

You can block most cyber bullying by selecting who can contact you, or if you really wanted to (GOD FORBID) you could delete your Facebook account.

I don't buy into this 'kids are bullied more harshly now BS'. Parents, teach your kids to fight back, don't just keep telling them to turn the other cheek!

That sir is hog wash! The meek are beautiful people, and they need protecting. I was bullied throughout elementary school. Fortunately I wasn't brave enough to kill myself, but I thought about it every day. I turned out pretty good though, in fact better than my bullies. In 8th grade I decided that I would take no more and if it was important enough to fight over it was important enough to kill over. I dared any bully to play by those rules. Ironic what cowards they turned into. Still some of my early tormentors had some really horrible things happen to them and their families over the years. Wonder if they'd get the joke if they knew it came from the punk they pushed around years before. Were I this girls father I'd have hunted down these bullies, crippled them and gladly accepted whatever punishment the law required. Mr. Cummings do whatever gives you relief. Just remember (and bullies take heed) vengence is a dish best served cold.

Really Mike? This was a 15 year old child!

You are the type that tells your kids to "smack em back"?

What we don't need are more parents like you!

Agree with you both, Mike and Jo-An. But Mike, remember we are dealing with kids. In no way am I saying that we should coddle our kids, they would never make it in the adult world with out learning to stand up for themselves and developing a reasonably thick skin. But stuff that you and I as adults, such as deleting a facebook account, is something we as adults wouldn't think twice about and wouldn't lose any sleep over. To a kid, it is a big deal, and can make them feel like even more of a social outcast. Clearly it is complicated. I for one, certainly don't know where that line should be between teaching a child to stand up for themselves and when it is appropriate for the parent to step in.

And when some kids fight back, we have Columbine...and teenage brains are not fully developed, they are more impulsive, and most teenagers have a difficult time believing things will get better, they do not have the experience to know that things will improve...

why is it that certain behaviors are illegal if an adult does them but not teenagers? verbal harrassment and beating someon up are behaviors that can get an adult in jail, but with kids it is treated like a part of growing up...now I don't think that the punishment has to be as harsh for teenagers, but really, if a co-woker physically assaulted me, there would be police charged filed, but when my son was bullied, there was not the same recourse...

Instinct is winning out over reason everywhere in our world. The weakest are always attacked in the animal world. To call us civilization as a verb is ok, but as a noun? (a verb would suggest an action, like becoming civilized, where a noun would suggest a state of being, that we are civilized) We are not even close. Evolution really has its hand full with the human species. Extinction seems inevitable at this point, but maybe not for the rich. If not their overt intent, at least the effect of their game is to turn us against each other, ruin our economy, and end up being the few survivors with a few serfs to wait on them. What better way to solve the population problem. Rats act pretty much the same way to overpopulation. Thus, I say instinct. We left the land, thinking there was more opportunity in the cities, only to have the jobs disappear, leaving many homeless and others in multi-generational dwellings. Iran could easily push us over the edge and that seems to be exactly what is happening.

Back in 1964 I almost died of an overdose of a common household drug. At the time, it was unheard of for a 'child' to make an attempt on their life. The Catholic Church determined that at 14, I was not old enough to understand the meaning of life and was therefore a juvenile delinquent trying to get attention. I was sent to a home for juvenile delinquents run by the church. That didn't last long and I ended up in a state mental hospital and got 20 shock treatment. I wanted an end to the misery, both physical and psychological, that had become my daily life. Wiping out the frontal lobes of my brain did the trick. About all I can say, is to encourage your kids to look towards the future and better times. But that is pretty lame considering what I've said above. It is just going to get worse and the better will be reserved for the 1%. If you want to survive, try being a butler or maid.

Really Mike? This was a 15 year old child!

You are the type that tells your kids to "smack em back"?

You are damn right. This world is a harsh and unforgiving place, if you don't stand up for yourself you will get walked all over. 15 is not a "child", though the way children/teens are coddled nowadays I am sure you consider them such.

Once you report the issue and nothing happens (which is usually what happens) what do you do? Take the kid out of school and shelter them from the world? How will that help them deal with problems in life? YOU CAN'T PROTECT THEM FOREVER.

Turn the other cheek does not work. This poor young girl became convinced in her mind that the only way to end her torment was to end her life. How sad for the family she left behind! And as the father noted, the bullying did not stop as she lay dying in the hospital, but continued. Bullies understand one thing, and that is brute force. If this young girl had been taught to stand up for herself, maybe she would not have felt so desperate, demeaned, and alone.

Bullying is something I understand all too well having gone through it for years myself as a child. What changed? ME!! I started working out, buffed up, and picked the head bully out one day and took care of him good and proper. Since he was far larger then me I fought dirty. Kicked him in the nuts with a pair of Dock Martins and then used them on his face and ribs while he was incapacitated. And YES... I am very proud of that. I can tell you that I was NEVER bullied again. Do not turn the other cheek. Kick the S**T out of them and dare anyone to try bullying you again. Your life will be completely different.

Have your children watch "My Bodyguard" with Chris Makepeace, Adam Baldwin, and Matt Dillon. Great story with a huge lesson for those who are bullied.

R.I.P. dear young girl.

First, if you know anything about child development, you would know a childs' brain is not fully developed until they reach their mid 20's. So your comment about 15, not being a child is ignorant.

Second, your "hit em back" attitude is exactly why we have BULLIES in the first place!

I taught my children (all 4) to use their words, not their fists! They don't take any crap, BUT they don't get in fights either!

Teaching our children to feel good about themselves and teaching them to stand up for themselves with out needing physical violence is what these kids need!

I think the best thing we can do is take all the bullies and put them in a school together. Although the environment would be toxic maybe they would actually learn how to behave. The parents of these bullies should be horrified to know the kind of children they have raised. If I had been a bully my parents would have put a stop to that is short order!

I love your compassion. You would likely be the parent of one of the bullies and proud of it. May you drop dead and fry in hell.

The suggestion that this should have been met with fisticuffs is ridiculous. And shame on those of you who have forgotten what it's like to have been bullied. I thank God the social network wasn't around when I was little. I would've been dead at a very young age.

Sorry JoAn you are wrong. My daughter is sweet and loving. She takes boxing and martial arts classes and knows how to defend herself. But she also knows that you cant just go around beating people up and hitting. She came home complaining of a BOY hitting her. She told the teacher, I called the school, I went up to the school and nothing was done because they are only in the 5th grade! Well I finally told her to "hit him back. If you are being attacked you have EVERY right to protect yourself." Needless to say we dont have a bully problem anymore, she is still a STRAIGHT A student and always gets complimented on her manners and behavior. Just because you defend yourself does not mean you are a bad kid, mean kid, or on the verge of being a bully yourself. What would you suggest a child do when being backed into a corner with no one to help them? Take the beating and then go tell? Or stand up protect yourself and THEN go tell. Look up the story on the girl who had her hair cut off while one girl held her down and another cut, and THEN they beat her so bad she had seizures and blacked out. She looked HORRIBLE. Face all swollen and 2 severely black eyes. Yes your right dont hit back no matter what.....not like that kind of beating could lead to your death.....

@SeekingSanity: your comment, "The parents of these bullies should be horrified to know the kind of children they have raised," should be true, but sadly it isn't. Most of these kids are bullies because that's what they see at home. Either they are bullied by their parents, or they've seen and heard what their parents do and the kind of comments they make about others.

Mike757 wrote:

or if you really wanted to (GOD FORBID) you could delete your Facebook account.

I'm not a huge Facebook fan, but the fact that she has a page there gives one a better idea of who she was and the people who knew her. If you have a Facebook account, you can log in and view the messages being left to her. In this case, having a Facebook account is definitely a touching end to what is a terrible tragedy.

First, if you know anything about child development, you would know a childs' brain is not fully developed until they reach their mid 20's. So your comment about 15, not being a child is ignorant.

Gotcha, so at 15 we trust kids enough to drive but they can't possibly understand what sticking up for themselves concept is all about.

Look it is simple, you try to resolve your problems with words...tell a teacher (which results in zero action 9 out of 10 times), talk to the person bullying you (which often results in more taunting)...but if that doesn't work you must fight back.

Had this girl done so, she would be alive today, but my guess is she had a parent like you.

I agree. It starts at home and if you don't pay attention to what, who and where your kids are, you are opening the door for all the crap out there to get in. I know it is hard to raise a child. I did it and it is the hardest job you will ever do. It is sad to see the society around us. Many kids have zero respect for anyone and that is a big problem because if they don't learn it young, they grow up to be problem adults.

A lot of parents are bullies. Good luck with getting to advocate them to teach their kids not to be bullies. Kids need to toughen up and seek positive influences in their lives. Maybe even consider staying out of social networking also.

The problem is that this country is full of "Not MY child" idiots. They believe their children are gifts to the planet and the sun rises and sets just for them, and they feel that the world needs to respect them, and only them.

Kids have always been herd animals. Evolved from Zebra's rather than Apes. And your right about the parents. Ask any teacher what kind of reaction they get from parents of problem kids.

I hope they give the vicious little twits a real lawsuit smack down.

If you properly discipline your children they try to get you for child abuse yet without a proper spanking a few times you wind up with bully's and suicides, take your pick.

Spanking doesn't teach respect. There are much better alternatives. This is a false definition of "proper discipline."

beating a child leads to bullies and suicides, NOT the other way.

Please pardon the literalist "Gent" who obviously thinks "spare the rod" was a license for child-beating rather than an injunction to discipline your children in whatever way worked...

Bullys look for EASY targets! Instead of trying to find and correct all the jerks and bullys of the world-- start with your own child . Teach them how NOT to be a target. As big of a problem as "bullying" is, being a victim is just as big in this country today.

There is a difference between "spanking" and "beating" although the lines has become less clear. In the end there is nothing wrong with spanking a child for doing wrong (regardless of what Oprah says). To be effective discipline must be administered with providing the child a clear understanding of what they did wrong. Yelling will not work, but talking will.

As for those who bullied this girl, I hope they do get punished to the fullest extent. Especially those who posted negative comments on her Facebook page while she lay dying in a hospital. How low has this society gotten?

Hitting only teaches a child to HIT!

"I am bigger, I can hit you and it is okay" BUT "you shouldn't hit"

DUH!

Sorry, someone who's willing to commit suicide over some bullying is probably looking for it. I'm tired of this victim society. You're all more than happy to accept that this person was a victim and someone else was responsible for her own actions. BS.

I was bullied from the first day of 1st grade because of my appearance. I recall being called names, I was beat up, I was even nailed with two rocks to the head at one school in one year. Hardly coinsidence. Did I ever feel justified in even considering suicide? No.

No, suicide is not an answer and no one should be held accountable for someone else taking their own life. This girl's story is sad, but it was her decision, no one else's. And certainly her story's no different than millions of others who found growing up difficult and that people are mean. You deal with it, or you take the afternoon bus out of this world.

I suggest we start teaching kids how to deal with it rather than sympathize with their emotional and immature solutions like this girl's answer.

It's an unfortunate fact that you can't teach kids respect, kindness or empathy. They either possess those qualities or they don't. Some children and teenagers are outright evil and don't care about the harm they inflict on anyone. When you couple that with the pack mentality of middle and high school students and you wind up with tragedies like this.

Then in some cases, you have crappy parents (like mine), who gave encouraging words like "It's all in your head" and "Suck it up," and a child feels like they have nowhere to turn. Not sure that was the case here, but I am sure often there is nothing there for many victims of bullying who reach out for help.

Heck, I remember going to my Algebra teacher about 2 boys who sat in back of me and were tormenting me to no end. All I asked was if she could move my seat to the other side of the room. Her first response was, "Well, I'm NOT going to separate them, if you're trying to suggest that and no, I'm not going to move you either."

So sometimes, parents and teachers enable this garbage, too. In this case it was an awful end to a short life. Poor girl. It's a shame she had to die in pain and sadness.

@crying shame:

It's an unfortunate fact that you can't teach kids respect, kindness or empathy. They either possess those qualities or they don't.

This may be true, but I can assure you, children that live in homes with families that respect one another and are kind and compassionate to one another, tend to be that way as well.

Your Algebra teacher example (as well as your parents) reinforces my point!

We shouldn't be having children if we aren't going to take the time to be there for them!

Are you kidding? Obviously these bully's parents are no better than they are. The rotten kids follow in their parents footsteps.

Since these Bullies are minors, the Parents of them should be held responsible, as well as their children. I hope the family of this young girl, successfully sues the parents for all their worth.

These parents are responsible for these little monsters until they are 18. It's about time parents of bullies do their job supervising and parenting their kids. These kids are cruel, vicious, uneducated and hateful punks, who will likely grow up to spread their ignorance to their children someday. These traits start at home.

Teenagers who participate in abuse towards others, need to be prosecuted. They obviously have no consequences for their actions at home, so why would they think it's any different when they are at school or anywhere else....

My condolences to the young girls loved ones. Such a shame....

Teenagers, in particular, are difficult to deal with as parents. Their peers are the most important thing to them at that time in their lives. It doesn't matter much what you say as parents. And acceptance by your "peers" is of utmost importance to them. And then there are always the "bullies" who are the "popular" kids and they always pick a few kids they decide will be their "victims." And no matter what those kids do, these bullies just keep on. The bullies have their little following and as the bully picks on these kids, their following is laughing and reinforcing the bullying behavior.

It may be tedious work, but almost all these kids have facebook pages... somebody at the school needs to be following these facebook pages and looking for this kind of taunting. And the bullies need to be kicked out of school... they won't be so "cool" and "popular" anymore without their following. I'll bet that most schools KNOW who the bullies are... they might not know who all of their victims are but they know the bullies. The bullies were well-known when I was in school.

This behavior has gone on for as long as I can remember... we had the bullies when I was in school and I graduated high school in 1973. Those that are not accepted by their peers will act out in many ways... some may become depressed and commit suicide. But some may go on to be the "Columbine shooters" or some of these other kids who act out in other similar fashions. With all the school and college shootings, there has to be a cause for this. When was one of the popular, out-going kids the shooter???? How often do you hear of the popular kids committing suicide? And the bad thing is, kids don't want to talk to their parents about it... they think we don't know anything because "things are different now than when we were kids."

This is just so sad because we all know as adults, once you graduate from high school and start making our own lives, what happened in high school and the people who were our "peers" are no longer meaningful in our lives. Heck, I can't remember even half of the names of people I went to school with.

The problem is NOT the kids who are being picked on... nobody likes to be picked on. And they are too young and immature to handle this treatment from their peers... the people who mean the most to them at that stage in their lives. They are social creatures and need the "normal" socialization during that period in their lives. If these schools started making examples out of these bullies like expelling them from school and thereby saying, "this behavior will not be tolerated", other kids might not be so likely to "adore" these bullies. And parents who have kids who have been expelled for the entire school year might wise up too and straighten these kids out, or at least try to.

I am so sorry for this family... I lost my son when he was a teenager (not from suicide or bullying though). They have a difficult road ahead of them because the shoulda' woulda' coulda's will drive you insane and the eternal "why" will nag at them forever. There will be a hole in your chest for a long, long time... an empty hole that you can "physically" feel. I hope the parents can find a Compassionate Friends support group.

Hey, Southern Gent, you're missing a few brain cells if you can't figure out a proper and effective way to discipline a child without spanking. The issue isn't whether to spank or not to spank, but whether to hold your child accountable for bullying or not hold that child accountable -- WITH EFFECTIVE PUNISHMENT. The problem with spanking is that it often teaches children that the way to solve a problem is through violence, not exactly the lesson you should be teaching a child who bullies.

Sheesh!

Article, the dad..."Keith Cummings told The Advance he will seek criminal redress against Amanda's tormenters"... Hopefully he seeks civil damages as well. It is no help if these kids are in poverty, but if their parents have/own anything, parents are "strictly liable" for the actions of their children - to at least age 18.
Schools should be a zero tolerance zone for bullies, and the "victims" should be counseled on social skills to defuse a situation. I told our kids when they were in school, don't start it, but finish it - if that meant being suspended, so be it. (Never happened though.) Some of these poor kids are so meek and afraid to break the rules that they become easy pickin's for bullies.

I hate to tell you this, but I'm afraid you are talking to a wall. There are a lot of piss poor parents in the world and in turn you have piss poor kids. I don't know the answer. We can cry foul forever, but it does no good because they just don't care. Sorry country this is turning into. I'm glad that I can live out here in my little world away from many of the ills of this society. Unfortunately the problems of the world are finding us out here in the small communities now also.

Sean..............are you serious....children who are bullied are looking to commit suicide????? Studies have shown that children who are bullied are more likely to become bullies. It messes with your brain (and I fear you are a prime example). Who are you to judge this young woman's state of mind? She had real fears for her physical safety.

I, too, was bullied while a teenager and physically threatened as well. I had one teacher who stood up for me as did my brother and sister. I had people to advocate for me.

We don't have all of the facts in this girl's case. Bullying needs to stop. I agree that suicide is not the answer. As a fellow bullied child, perhaps you should reach out to help those who feel they have no other option than to kill themselves rather than make a snide judgmental comment that shows you have no compassion for a fellow sufferer. Shame on you! You're sick of this "victim society?" Then stand up and make a difference rather than turning your back on someone in need. Your attitude shows you to be a bully yourself.

Another consequence of the Lib/Progressive/Atheist "Victory" in driving God and morals and values out of the Public Schools.

Ever see the painting of Christ at the door of the cottage ??....There is no doorknob on the outside. He Knocks, you must open the door from the inside to invite Him in....It's a choice.

So sad....... she had beautiful eyes....and now they are closed forever.

Another pointless legislation where the government is telling us how to behave.

Yeah, too bad parents don't teach their children any respect for anything these days. They don't have respect for other people, their property or even themselves!

what_the_81 - unfortunately since the parents aren't doing their jobs, the laws have to be made to protect others. Bullies have no place in schools and their behavior should not be accepted - by anyone.

what_the_81: FYI

Laws like anti-bullying laws are put in place as much to establish and assign legal accountability and responsibility AFTER the fact of an occurrence as they are to "tell" people what to do. Otherwise, it would be difficult to punish or get reparations from bullying kids who contribute to the death of another AND it would be difficult to legally hold their parents responsible in any degree for the bad behavior of their bullying children.

When you fail to recognize that, and you bitch and moan out loud about such laws, you give people - especially teens - the idea that these laws are unfair restrictions on them and it might egg them on to rebel through increasing their torment of other kids. It can be very difficult to balance the sometimes-conflicting goals of protecting individual freedoms while yet protecting the more vulnerable of us from predators (which is what bullies are). As seen in these comments, a lot of people are hollering that something should be done about these predatory children, and in a perfect world their parents would have prevented them becoming cruel, but too often parents are either clueless about their 'little darlings' or they are in denial or they just don't care.

As others have pointed out, successful parenting is not for the unfocused, undedicated and neglectful. Having raised five sons into their 20s and 30s, I know. Too often, parents will not care what lousy behavior choices their kids make until they themselves suffer some loss from it or they see a nearby example that motivates them to avoid similar, personal consequences. You'd think both the kids and parents today would be more aware, given the litany of recent, tragic incidents; but some people never make the connection that it applies to them. They never see or hear the 'train' until it runs them over...

BlackHillsLaura- Very thoughtful and clear post. Really breaks through all the comments above it. Thanks!

what_the_81, somebody needs to tell these kids how to behave! Obviously they have not gotten guidance from home nor the school. Parents just insisted that schools stop any religious teachings in schools, you know, some right vs wrong stuff. They only wanted them to teach reading, 'riting, and 'rithmetic. They got their wish... now there is no guidance at school nor at home. I would rather have some spiritual guidance than NONE at all.... at least somebody needs to tell these kids the difference between right and wrong. Parents don't know what these kids do at school and most don't care... don't want to hear about it, too busy. As long as the school is providing free "babysitting" all day, that is all that matters.

:(

I feel bullied by the replies to my initial comment.

When I was a kid in school, alot of times the teachers were right in the middle of the bullying.

It starts with the adults! 9 times out 10 kids that bully have parents who bully as adults!

I was bullied in junior high school while standing in line waiting for the afternoon bus. Every time, I looked for the teacher in charge, and after we made eye contact, she always turned her head. Committing suicide never crossed my mind. I don't know why it seems to be so common now, but I understand the pain that bullying causes.

Parents allow it to happen -- when i was in second grade, a fifth grader was picking on me at the bus stop. His mother stood beside him allowing him to continue ... until I followed him on the bus and sat next to him and immediately slammed his face into the bus window. How quickly did his mother jump on the bus and yell at the driver that "he's killing my baby." I had to sit in the front seat that day and got a talking-to from the assistant principal... I only hurt his pride, but God forbid the tables are turned, his mother is quick to defend her kid who could do no harm.

Excellent story Eli!! I wish i had the courage to do that when I was a kid. To bad you couldn't kick the S$#@ out of that bitch mother too!

I had to do basically the same thing to stop bullies on more than one occasion. Eventually with all 4 of my kids I had to teach all the ways to deal with bullies with the last resort of getting physical. On a couple of occasions my kids had to use physical force to stop their tormentors. The funny thing is that o in my situation and for my eldest son the bullies ended up giving back respect for it and wanting to be friends. However, tht was in a different era. Today the actions my son and I took likely would have ended with getting suspended and possibly arrested while the bullies got off scot free. My son one daughter and I were all picked on for being taller than average. It sucks to be tormented for something you can't help. IF you already have low self esteem and self respect and parents that don't care it damages you and it can be years into adulthood before you can reconcile this in your mind and accept that there is nothing wrong with you, your a worth while person with thoughts, feelings, needs and wants just like everyone else. Also that you deserve and need to demand respect from the people around you. Suicide is not the answer, but people like the poster sean and other s with similar and riduclous responses to this issue just make it all worse. The poster who told sean to stand up and make a difference was absoulutely right. If you once were a victim how can you not have compassion? As an adult you should be able to understand or at least research child development so that you can understand that kids are not born with the knowledge of how to deal with this stuff and it's up to adults to help!!

Andy, she committed suicide because her pain exceded her resources for coping with pain.

You could say the same thing for all the bullies, and their parents and teachers, couldn't you?

And can you really expect someone who's contemplating suicide to make rational decisions about how they're going to go about the act?

A agree Andy, just take yourself out and leave everyone else out of it.

CdB, there is no "just take yourself out" in any suicide. It will always affect someone else.

Andy makes a very good point, just not one that very many people think about. I agree that suicide is horrible,and if I think about that being my daughter, it turns my stomach. But it makes it that much more horrendous when someone ending their life involves others in carrying it out. I've heard of suicide described as a "selfish" act, though I think that's harsh, it's true. I've been to that place once in my life, and I like how a comment above describes it as the pain exceeding the resources for dealing with that pain. It's so true. It's dark and deep and helpless and my heart goes out to this girl and her family.

When a person is in the frame of mind to commit suicide, their brain chemistry is altered - they truly cannot help it - they are not "being selfish" they simply cannot stop themselves from ending their pain, and sadly, their own lives. It's so sad that she was unable to reach out to someone close to her for help before it got to that point.

It isn't selfish; just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it the victim's fault. Suicide, hate crimes and rape seem to suffer from this "its the victim's fault" mentality in America (cannot comment on other countries as I only have lived in the USA). It is actually really horrendous and says more about your personality than anyone else. Whatever happened to blaming the actual criminal?

She was a kid... you are talking about adult logic.

@ Andy you really have no idea what it is like to be in that mind frame. I can tell you, it is not pretty. You do not think clearly. It is sad that the people who witnessed it will forever be haunted by it in their dreams. Heck, I've seen death without it being by suicide at the hands of drunks, and careless drivers. It is traumatic and haunts you the rest of your life.

I feel bad for those who will be affected most. But, I hate to say it does seem like one of the parents judging from the story missed a lot of the warning signs. They were there, they just didn't see them because most likely they weren't paying as much attention as they should have been.

Oh, and good teachers see the warning signs. They acknowledge them and try to help the children. I should know, I was stuck going to shrink for several months. Bullies need to be punished. This isn't something new. They should be held accountable. If an adult can be charged for their actions toward others then so should they.

A problem cannot be corrected by running away from it. Parents, teachers and administrators have to address this problem and they need to take it seriously. There have always been bullies. Unfortunately, there is no discipline anymore........ no accountability and very little, if any, punishment.

This is not tolerated in an employment situation, so why is it tolerated in the educational system?

jan - It gets a bit complicated when the scenario is kids are required by law to attend school, and they are minors - so their acting up means the parent/guardian will likely be called in. In business, you can fire an employee easily enough, in education it is more drawn out to get them booted, "re-assigned". And of course, due to budget cuts, school counselors are cut back or just cut.

The principal does not like the District Office drawn in, does not like parents at his/her door. Calmly complain - but be firm. DOCUMENT every incident - date/time/description. If the principal won't handle it, go to the district - if they balk, get a lawyer.

It funny how schools have zero tolerance for a lot of things. Bring a midol to school with you and don't check it in at the office will get you suspended. Harrass, torment, belittle, degrade, physically assault a peer, no problem. You can even be punished for something you do out side of school in some states, counties. Smoke a cigarette across the street from school when school has let out for the day and be seen doing it gets you detention and possibly suspension at the high school my kids attended. Harass a fellow student through the internet, not school business!!! How does that make sense??????????????

Really??? I disagree. As an American parent myself I have 3 kids who are well behaved (most of the time) and we have had many discussions about bullying. I have had a child who was bullied and when the school did very little I took it upon myself to call all 4 kids parents and explain the situation. The next day my daughter came home with 2 apology letters and has never been bullied again. I took this opportunity to tell my kids that while I wouldn't tolerate them being bullied, I would also never tolerate them bullying and the consequences if they ever did would be harsh.

Don't sound ignorant by making such a broad statement. Their are bad parents in every country.

I am so sorry for this family. I can't imagine their pain.

I have never loosed my humanity, I have only loosened a few screws.

Please learn to spell before generalizing an entire nation. You come off as having the intelligence of an 8-year-old at best; sounds like it's your parents who failed.

America, who often roots for the underdog, at least tries to address the problem of bullying - granted with middling success.

Foreign kids can face much worse, especially if in a community where someone is "different" - looks, religion, etc.

Well said
AnotherLimey I could not agree with you more, Americans become so engrossed in making
their almighty dollar that the children are often the ones being ignored or
worse and if the parents do not try to help in times of crisis such as when a
child is being bullied then when?

Not just teachers and parents, Limey; unless the entire culture refuses to tolerate such behavior, it will continue. That is, as long as there is anyone out there who justifies the psychological torture that is modern "bullying"...

@ben,

Way to pull a comment out of your ass...how is this suicide reflective of the nation as a whole? I'd like to see something to back up your assertion that all Americans are neglectful parents, and that they drive their children to suicide on a regular basis in their pursuit of money.

Very well said!

An educator is legally responsible if they even suspect child abuse. They must report it. Is this not child abuse? I don't believe that teachers cannot do anything about if.

jp - you can bring each of the bullies in and give them detention. You can call their parents over and over and over until the behavior stops. You can see they are suspended - there is something you can do. And, it needs to be done now! Losing one more life because of bullies is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I've seen teachers do exactly that, Seeking, to absolutely no effect on the child. As long as the torturers get support--from parents, peers, or society--all the detentions and suspensions and expulsions will achieve exactly nothing...

Teachers are utterly powerless. Often the bullies simply threaten their victims "If I get put in detention, I'll make it even worse for you."

And they follow through on their threats.

You learn real fast that "appealing to authority figures" is the absolute worst thing you can do as a victim of bullying. It's a huge signal of helplessness. It means you're pathetic -- at least, it does in the mind of the other kids.

So parents can't help. Teachers can't help. Often, you can't do anything about it yourself. Trying to "stick up for yourself" just makes it worse. You can only do so much when you're outnumbered ten to one.

I remember I would go to my locker only to find out somebody had broken into it and stolen all my schoolbooks and homework. They broke into my gym locker when I was in gym class and stole my regular clothes and shoes. They would steal my coat. I never found out who did these things -- it could have been anybody. I had no friends, just entire classrooms full of bullies who existed to torment me. What can a teacher do when I can't even finger a suspect?

That was school for me. Year after year of exactly that. No friends. No parties. Just mockery, abuse, and pain.

It starts to bother you less once you realize you really are worthless.

Teachers are utterly powerless. Often the bullies simply threaten their victims "If I get put in detention, I'll make it even worse for you."

And they follow through on their threats.

You learn real fast that "appealing to authority figures" is the absolute worst thing you can do as a victim of bullying. It's a huge signal of helplessness. It means you're pathetic -- at least, it does in the mind of the other kids.

So parents can't help. Teachers can't help. Often, you can't do anything about it yourself. Trying to "stick up for yourself" just makes it worse. You can only do so much when you're outnumbered ten to one.

I remember I would go to my locker only to find out somebody had broken into it and stolen all my schoolbooks and homework. They broke into my gym locker when I was in gym class and stole my regular clothes and shoes. They would steal my coat. I never found out who did these things -- it could have been anybody. I had no friends, just entire classrooms full of bullies who existed to torment me. What can a teacher do when I can't even finger a suspect?

That was school for me. Year after year of exactly that. No friends. No parties. Just mockery, abuse, and pain.

It starts to bother you less once you realize you really are worthless.

Story of my life until college. Still carry the wounds of it to this very day. Some of the bullies even made it into high-paying managerial jobs. Goes to show it will never stop so long as it is rewarded.

The last time I went to a teacher or other figure of authority to report bullying, I was dragged by the pair of bullies to a pond and nearly drowned. After that I nearly died of pneumonia from aspirating water.

Other than not caring if you are punished for defending yourself, there is nothing you can do

Sorry Elly, I'll never understand people. Even if I hated someone I wouldn't hurt them.

Now if it were my child bullying or being bullied, I'd make my mind known.

If other kids would stop standing by and step in, maybe it would help. The teenage world is it's own society. Well, any young school age person is in their little society. If no one is willing to step up for another, then it'll continue. I was bullied. I took it, but when a friend was bullied I stood up to them for her, and in turn earned some respect. She wasn't bullied anymore, and I was only verbally abused by a few of the jocks who just didn't get it.

Grey Mare, and what will your children do during the day?

AND, the best part is that the kids can always do this at night when the parents are home so that they can supervise it if they have to work.

Children need the social side of schooling as much as the academic side. Homeschooling is a lot harder than you portray, in order to be successful a parent needs to be "at home with them" AND make sure they have meaningful social relationships with their peers.

As parents we all need to really take time to "talk to" our children, so they will feel safe to come to us with their problems and we need to be ready to advocate for them!

Sad story.

The problem needs to be addressed. Running away from it will solve nothing. Let's just hide behind barred windows and doors and let the bullies and criminals take over the world? I don't think so.

Not a good idea to threaten a child - I would've told him I'd sue his parents, take their house, their savings, their car, etc. That would impress the kid and he's tell his parents and they'd understand what they could lose.

Sounds like a good idea to me! Fight fire with fire. These are NYC kids whose parents turn out to be even bigger bullying morons than their kids. I graduated from that same school 30 years ago, back then it was only physical, they just beat you up in the courtyard during recess or waited for you in a group after school. Now with the internet, they have the emotional torturing and social shunning to add to it. Too bad these girls who did this to her will probably only get what they did when they have children of their own.

Carole, I disagree with you. Do you really believe that threatening to sue this little thugs parents and take his house would scare him? please! Bullies are predators and only understand brute force, and it worked too.

I was touched by the comment your son made to you. Thank-god you were there for him. People have to start realizing that is where incidents like columbine start. With kids who are "different" in some way that attracts these viscious nasty kids and their criminal behavior. Part of the problem for teachers is too many kids in the classroom to really pay attention to what is going on with their students as people. It gets harder in Jr. and Sr. High were classes change every hour or so and the bullying happens between classes, at lunch and before and after school as well as in class in the gym etc.. There is less supervision at this stage. Parent and volunteers from the community who have the time coud step up by coming to school, assisting the teachers in classrooms and helping monitor the halls, locker banks, lunchrooms and out door areas. This might damper the problem a little. The schools could have peer programs where bullies are brought in front of a court of their peers to review their actions and make reccomendations to school administrators on what the punishments should be. Try and make it cool to be kind!!

The mother is probably HOPING it WAS an accident! I doubt she wants to believe her child committed suicide!

Maybe she cannot imagine her daughter would rather die than live...and maybe there is some guilt there too...this is just sad all around.

Oh Geeze, you really think this 15 year old child was thinking?

Why didn't this self-indulgent, self-destructive little girl see that? Kill yourself if you must, don't ruin the lives of others in the process.

Way to show compassion! I feel sorry for your "grandchildren"

Blame the victim much, Gramps? She just needed to "toughen up," right? And Stephen Hawking can run a 4.4 forty if he would just try, you betcha...

Self-indulgent?!?! Are you kidding??? She commited sucide at 15. I don't think she was thinking of the consequences because she was hurting and in pain and her 15 yr old brain couldn't think beyond it.

@!$%#!!

I have one question for every one who is saying things like "when I was younger" and how much is wrong with the world today. Who went wrong? Aren't you in the older generation the ones who have raised the people who now have such disregard for life and rules? Not blaming any one because I am a very firm believer in accepting responsiblity for our own actions but why does the older generation love to point out how it was when they were young but see no connection to the current state of our country in themselves. We are all to blame if we do nothing but sit on our butts and point fingers.

Okeydokeythen, maybe those of us who are older know this has always gone on, it always will go on, and either you deal with it or you don't. I'm not quite as old as Carole, but the only difference I see between now and the time I was growing up is that kids seem more willing to take the easy way out of this rather than dealing with it. Or, perhaps we just believe the rate of both bullying and suicide is higher because we hear about more because of faster media cycles.

Bottom line, you're going to have to prove that bullying is different or more prevalent today than it was a few decades ago before you can get someone like me blaming myself for any rate of current bullying. I've already dealt with it a long time ago - if the rate's higher, I'd like to know why kids today seem to think suicide is the answer. My guess is that being a victim more accepted. Just look at the sympathy for this person killing herself - "back in the day" my peers would have only looked down on her for her final choice of action. IMO it's no wonder people find suicide the way out - you're accepting of it too.

I agree with Sean, this is something that has always been around and ALWAYS will be. in a younger environment where kids are more susceptible to peer pressure and going with the "mob" crowd. These things happen. It's wrong, but kids sense of right or wrong are not fully developed either and it's easily influenced at this point in life. Same reason we make it illegal for someone over 18 to sleep with a 16 year old....we believe the 16 year old doesn't understand the full decision they are making. What needs to happen is teaching our children to better defend themselves. To take it with a grain of salt. To be proud of who they are and not care so much about what others think or say. To not get so hung up over that boyfriend that dumped you. IT ONLY GETS WORSE when you are older if you don't have normal coping skills. PEOPLE in this world can be mean and evil.

Coping skills instruction might be very helpful. With society so transient, compared to "back in the day", kids cross the line - they go too far today.

Kids would have rarely hammered away at their peers in the rural Ohio communities I've known, as their mothers were all friends and would give their kids a talking to. Every mom would have heard of it at Tuesday Bridge Club. Today, even in our SoCal community, the mothers - and some dads in high school - know eachother and the kids as a social group, through school. Being a band parent for example - if you are involved, your kids spend a lot of time with the same group, and are more protected from bullying. More than once with the girls - but sometimes with the boys - we mothers stepped in to soften a band geek's pain over lack of social skills and the exclusion. We'd try to make them feel better and try to help. And the bullying kids would get talked to - at least for a truce. Sort of a village.

I'm sorry your children were bullied, but did you ever think about the child that was doing the bullying? Someone should have gotten some help for the "foster child" that was acting out in this terrible way. Tossing him into "jail" wouldn't be solving anything, it just makes the problem worse.

This is why kindness and compassion should be part of all of our schools curriculums! Children that feel good about themselves do better in school, AND they are less likely to be BULLIES!

Oh pleeease, don't spout any of that "feel good" crap!! That's the problem with the last few generations of kids!! We don't let them fail, we don't discipline them, we don't do anything that may make them "feel bad" about themselves!!! So what do we end up with??? A bunch of people that have no idea how to handle disappointment, feel entitled to everything, have no idea how to work for something!! You want kids to feel good about themselves, teach them how to be responsible for themselves and their actions, teach them how work for something, teach them how to handle disappointment (not everyone makes the team etc), teach them how to cope with the crap life will throw at them. I guarantee they'll feel plenty good about themselves.

Jo Ann, I do not have any sympathy or compassion for kids who intentionally hurt other kids just because their lives are screwed up! I sent my kids to school to receive an education---NOT to be accosted, bullied or attacked by other students! I am all for getting kids like them the proper help, but this help doesn't extend to allowing them to VICTIMIZE other kids just so they can feel better about themselves...geesh.

There are specialized schools or places that are better equipped to handle some of these kids that have severe behavioral problems far beyond what the school system can offer, but for those who do it just because they can, I absolutely believe it may take jail tine to scare them straight. It's the hard lessons kids learn from, remember, and are less inclined to repeat.

Ultimately as a parent my job is to PROTECT MY CHILDREN and if another child or even an adult attempts to do them harm, then they will have to suffer whatever consenquences comes of it...like they say "if you're going to play with fire prepared to be burned". We need to stop CODDLING them and hold Bullies responsible for their bad acts...just like I held my kids responsible when they acted badly and lost their freedoms, priviledges, activities, detention, or money when they broke, damaged, harmed, fought or did things that ran contrary to my home, school or societies rules. Now at 21 and 19 they are law abiding respectable adults who are on their way to very rewarding careers :o)

@Spry,

Children need to know how to defend themselves, I agree. And as a parent, it is ABSOLUTELY your job to protect your children! I agree!

My post wasn't a personal attack on your choices, I just think a little compassion would be helpful in this screwed up world!

@Life

Children should be taught to be responsible for themselves TOO.

I think you miss my point!

Bully parents are producing bully children!

Jo An - what you say is true but for those who bully, something has to be done to stop them. It is the job of the teachers, the school administration and the parents to stop them before another life is lost because of their abuse.

Absolutely! I agree!

@LifeLong,

Spoken like a true idiot...don't generalize an entire generation just because you think you were better. All credibility is lost when you start off with "That's the problem with the younger generation". Do some research and you'll see that every generation has said the same thing about the next one, even the generation before your perfect one. Imagine that.

Sprylynnx, your comments just put a huge smile on my face. I wish all parents were proactive like that. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience!

sprylynnx,thank you for sharing your story. i am a firm believer that parents can help make their kids life safer and better by being more proactive and taking charge of the situation. some educators are bound by laws and regulation to be fair to both parties, the bullies and those who are being bullied,but as a parent you have the right to protect your kids (minors) at least till they can stand on their own(18 years old). kudos for making good use of the laws that are in place just for that,protecting and keeping us safe.

Right on mom! You go girl! You got balls and alot of parents need to get some to make bullying the exception not the rule of how life is for kids these days!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have become more like Rome every day, especially in our attitudes. The haves simply do not care about anyone but themselves. They have risen to a height where even the law is afraid to touch them. Banks who've made bad loans think it is quite alright to back illegal drug distribution to make its money back. What these attitudes set us up for is revolution and bloodletting. And that's a shame because we started out with a Constitution that worked well and after our Civil War settled the question of slavery and states rights vs national rights we seemed invincible. Rome too was invincible, until it got weary of being so powerful and other ideas and nations overwhelmed it. If we are not careful, that can happen to us too!

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

@Carole Clarke - With all due respect, please explain your hypothesis regarding banks making bad loans thinking its alright to back illegal drug distribution to get their money back. That made no sense even while I was typing it. I am totally lost with that one, please explain. Everything was not alright after the Civil War. Do you think the war really settled the issue of slavery? Did you forget Reconstruction which was a mini form of slavery in and of itself, Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Era? You would actually place the United States up there with the mighty Roman Empire? Inquiring minds would be most interested in knowing your thoughts regarding these events that have helped shaped our country.

Interesting way to put it, Jonathan. Unfortunately, "it is what it is," and as you've noted, basic humanity is now derided as weakness or--gasp!--socialism! Horrors!...

Carole,

PLEASE do some research...you're embarrassing yourself.

Actually, it's important from a legal stand point. They need to determine that she actually died from her injuries (and which injury or injuries specifically, if possible). They need to be sure she didn't die of some underlying congenital heart problem (for example). This is important if they decide to bring criminal charges against those that bullied her - did she die of suicide that happened in response to the bullying; or did she die of something else. If the COD is determined to actually be suicide, then the charges could be more severe (potentially). If the COD is something else, then the charges would be less severe (if any at all).

Of course, you and I, and pretty much everyone else, know she died due to suicide - but, it must be officially determined for any potential legal or civil action. It's basically making sure all the t's are crossed & i's are dotted.

I always stood up for myself and I didn't end up bullying anyone. Teaching kindness and compassion is fine, but the fact is that children physically lack the brain development to have the same kind of empathy as a healthy adult. It's great if parents take the time and interest to teach their children understanding and morals, but not every kid is going to be receptive. Bullies aren't going to disappear, and children should also be taught to understand that it's okay to stand up for yourself and that there isn't always going to be a safety net in every situation. A little self-reliance and confidence can get a kid out of some scary situations.

I didn't say children shouldn't stand up for themselves.

I owned a preschool for many years and I can't tell you how many times I would have to talk to a parent about their child's aggressive behavior and then watch that same parent, yank the child up by their arm, smack them for hitting, knock them across their face for talking back, etc. Bullies teaching their children to BE bullies TOO!

THIS DID NOT HELP! All that does is produce ANGRY BULLIES!

Jo-An, I get your point, but it's not so much schools that need to change as society that needs to change. As long as there are elements in society that simply shrug it off as "kids being kids," or even worse celebrate it as a rite of passage, then nothing, unfortunately, will change...

Agreed!

Jo-An, I agree that a parent slapping their child is wrong and will make them a bigger bully. However, when you write that teaching your children to fight back will make them bullies too?!! You're wrong. The world we live in is harsh. I am a firm believer in the "use of force". When faced with life threatening danger at the hands of a criminal, do the police just "talk" their way out? NO!!!! They use FORCE!!!!

You wrote that you have taught your kids to use words, to talk their way out. You are naive if you believe that will ALWAYS work, it will not.

And for you to say to those of us who believe in teaching our children self-defense that we should be ashamed?!!! How DARE YOU!!! I LOVE my kids and your kids too, that's because I'm a good guy. But not else everyone is Jo-An. I will continue to teach my kids to love, respect, and protect others. I will also continue to teach them that they have every right to defend themselves from any attack, verbal or physical, and if anyone puts their hands on them FIGHT!!!!

Me and my kids don't bully, but we don't have a problem beating the teeth out of a bully. Maybe Mr. Obama should have given Osama bin Laden a good talking to instead of having his brains blown out...hmmm...maybe not huh?

If you were attempting to comprehend most were saying hit back as a last resort. Unfortunately it is the only effective means in some cases.