When did they get out of the stone age to start with ???????

I don't think Alabama is charging into the past here. They are taking a step that every state will have to follow eventually. Generous welfare and leaky borders are impossible to maintain in combination.

I'm guessing they will cross out the word foreign and substitute Mexican. I was just thinking about this today. I was wondering how the crops were doing, knowing that so many Americans are just dying to pick them. I guess it is winter so we will have to see in the spring.

The federal government is at fault here for not enforcing the federal laws that are already on the books. Alabama has taken the lead in doing the job that the feds refuse to do. If an American is in a foreign land and authorities ask them for I.D. they have to produce it or they will be detained. What is good for Americans abroad is also good for the legals and illegal ummigrants that are here. When a stray cat would show up at our house and we would feed it, it would stay and never leave. But if you never feed the stray it would go on towards the next house until it was feed. Get ready Florida. Mississippi and Tennessee for all the strays that are heading your way. At least Georgia had enough intelligence to pass and enforce their own immigration law. The federal government needs to go after the employers that are hiring the illegals with heavy fines and mandatory jail time.

Uh, Alabama's image? The cradle of conservatism and the confederacy is now worried about its image? So, for centuries, it enslaves people selling them in jim crowe lines. Then segregates and disenfranchises their descendants with jim crowe laws. Then when that becomes illegal, like the rest of the country, they move to imprison people based on CONTINENTAL origin, the end of that is to be determined.

They must have arrested a foreign white person and then realized it. Naturally the law is now gone. If not that, it occurred to them that farm workers left and food costs have gone up nationally since these idiots started their crap. No one is interested in picking crops in Alabama unless they came from Mexico or are facing a whoopin.

I H A T E R A C I S T S ! ! ! ! !

Alabama as the cradle of conservatism? Can you explain that, or are you hurling accusations at random?

Tripod: Really?? exactly WHICH federal laws are not being enforced?? Border security is at an all-time high by any measure you want to take. Are you even vaguely aware that the number of undocumented workers deported from this country is at an all time high? Are you even vaguely aware that there is now no net migration from Mexico into the United States?? (meaning there are as many people leaving the US from Mexico as coming in?) All for what exactly? Even Alabama...EVEN Alabama...is beginning to understand what happens what you let the racists and the haters win. They deserve the scorn of the entire world and decent people everywhere.

i'll ask the same question i asked about arizon's immigration law. how is it racist? nobody could answer regarding arizona's law. i suspect nobody on this site will be able to answer as well.

HAHAHAHA...lmao......how stupid these states are.....I can't imagine how embarrassed these state officials were, stopping the guys that are bringing jobs to Alabama. However no one ever thought the officials in Alabama are the least bit bright. This is the south of the USA at its finest.........

waver,

mistakes are made in the enforcement of all laws. should we abolish all laws as well?

youareabully posts:

Well Jon, I think that he is IGNORANT then, if I was walking in Germany you better believe I wouldn't have left my hotel without my passport, its people like you always thinking the worse.

Hey bully, evidently you have never traveled to Europe...I have been sent by a US company to several countries in Europe. I never felt the need to have my passport on me at all times......they are free countries you know. However, maybe you aren't aware of this fact...typical.

i'll ask the same question i asked about arizon's immigration law. how is it racist?

It's racist when two people are traveling at the same speed limit and the officer pulls over the vehicle that happens to be driven by a person of Mexican descent. Doesn't matter if he's a second generation born in the US, just because he looks Mexican he is continuously harassed by the police.

A white man/woman when pulled over has to present his/her drivers license, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance. A person that looks Mexican has to provide proof of his right to be in Alabama plus all the other papers even though his mother and father were also born in the US. If you can see that as racial profiling then there is no need to go any farther.

AP

How about this law.

The Obama administration announced Thursday that it would suspend deportation proceedings against many illegal immigrants who pose no threat to national security or public safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/us/19immig.html?pagewanted=all

Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]

(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) 1/ Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of-

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) An individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code, or both.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=act

Now do you see the word EXECPT in that section of the Immigration Law???

Well, this does prove that critics of the law were wrong when they said that Alabama police would use racial profiling and detain only those who look Hispanic. Not true, obviously.

As a life-long Democrat and an '08 Obama voter, I totally applaud Alabama's effort to enforce the equivalent of federal immigration laws.

If the federal government will not enforce our laws by granting de facto amnesty to ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS (as the Obama Administration did through its recent ICE memorandum), then the States must do so, as they simply cannot afford or sustain the extraordinarily prohibitive financial costs of ILLEGAL immigration. ILLEGAL immigrants consume FAR MORE in taxpayer funded social services than they pay in taxes. Anyone with a brain and compassion for American citizens and LEGAL immigrants can see this plain reality and wants for our laws to be enforced rather than subverted.

Unfortuantley, the Obama Administration (for whom I both voted and worked during '08), has pledged to subvert federal law by offering de facto amnesty to ILLEGAL immigrants and by suing States like Alabama which correctly determined that the financial burdens of ILLEGAL immigration are unsustainable, unacceptable, and catastrophic.

A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!

i'll ask the same question i asked about arizon's immigration law. how is it racist? nobody could answer regarding arizona's law. i suspect nobody on this site will be able to answer as well.

American citizens of color are required to have to carry around their "papers" while other citizens don't. In other words if I am of Mexican decent and I get stopped I have to proove that I am a citizen, but white people don't.

I've lived outside the country for 5 years and am a moderate traveller. I do not think that I have ever been questioned outside of airport customs. I do walk around with my license but never my passport. I've never been to Germany though. Maybe they would say halt, show me your papers

Alabama could get rid of most of the law and still force the illegals to move. All they need to do is keep the e-verify mandate and follow that up with diligently auditing all businesses to ensure they are in compliance with the law. Fine/penalize those businesses that are not and most will stay in compliance.

The other part is the contracts law and it could be reduced to only state that all businesses that submit a bid for contracts to work for the state or municipal governments must also agree to using e-verify. This would be needed so that if a company from outside the state won a bid they would not be able to bring in illegals.

No prejudice, no racism, just strict compliance with being legal to get a job and work in the state.

For all of the idiots that think this law was put in place to get rid of brown people go back and read the article. The Mercedes Rep was hardly from South of the Border as well as the Honda Plant worker. So your trying to pull the race card doesn't work.

I AGREE with this law,there's nothing wrong with people being here from other places but they need to be doing it the right way.There's nothing wrong with being old fashioned..it would be nice if EVERY state enforced the laws. GO BAMA!!

Remember back in the day when we had sanctions against South Africa for practicing apathied?(sp)

Perhaps these 'foreigners' had their passport secured in the hotel safe? Perhaps they did not think they would need to have it on their person because they were in a 21st century 1st world country.... Perhaps they did not think that they would be locked up (if they were) awaiting their company to bring the proof of their being here legally... Perhaps they made their 1 phone call to the German embassy etc regarding their being detained?

On the other hand many of these Southern States can kiss these sort of high wage industries goodbye for any such ventures in the future. No wonder they are into building more of these private for -profit prisons in their states.... LOL

Why would you set up shop in States that are so backwards or prejudiced against foreigners/foreign looking or sounding people in the first place? Where else would you mistake a german accent for a spanish accent.... but then again .. don't these foreign car companies have spanish speaking employees too? Oops...

Who knows.... perhaps European and Asian countries etc will start to return the favor (papers please) as the brain drain from this country continues as Americans relocate overseas following the jobs/employment....

It is time that the federal govt/justice dept get serious about reviewing some of these laws being passed by these southern states.

Well these laws are surely going to put a dent in tourism to these States.... even from American citizens from other States in the Union.... LOL

"Since then, two foreign workers for Alabama's prized Honda and Mercedes auto assembly plants have been stopped by police for not having the required documents to prove residency. The cases were later dropped."

Interesting. ICE and Border Patrol Agents have the authority to stop anyone, anywhere and at any time and demand proof of citizenship. If it can't be provided, they have the authority to detain that person.

So there's no problem when the Feds do this, but some how Alabama is some evil, stone-age bunch when they do it. Hypocrisy is overwhelming.

AP...'deportations at an all time high'. You seem much too intelligent to fall for that smoke and mirrors game. If you add all the deportations together that have occurred in the last 10 years, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to the 12+ million illegals here. There is no net migration here because of the state of our economy. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything the Federal government is doing.

Racist and haters? Seriousy? Because some one wants Federal laws enforced they're a racist and are hater?

Flagwaver...I've traveled in 5 different European countries and have never been asked for an ID or even seen anyone asked for an ID or passport. But I always carry my passport or a copy of it with me. Why? Search the web for what has happened to perfectly innocent vacationers traveling in Europe who were stopped. Ruined vacation by the time some of them worked through all the red tape.

In the U.S., ICE and Border Patrol Agents have the authority to stop anyone, anywhere and at any time and demand proof of citizenship. Have you ever seen that happen? I never had until I started frequenting the border with Mexico. I've seen it several times there and have had it happen to me. I'm a 6'2" white person. Why did the boarder patrol stop me? According to the Sergeant with the 4 other agents that surrounded my brother and I with weapons drawn, because he thought we might be Russians.

just more of the same. Next, it's us ...all of us.

Thanks HS321, glad you supported that.

FLAG....I have been around most of the world and that is WHY I believe going the extra mile when traveling is well worth doing ie carry a copy or the original passport everywhere I go! By the by, I do believe it is what is asked of you in the countries you travel in too, I know I know being a rule follower is boring... but one of us has too!!

"Great State of Alabama"? What an oxymoron!

Oxymoron or just morons. I guess it depends on whether you're talking about the state or the legislators.

Driving a car as an american citizen you are subject to be stopped by police and asked for identification to show proof of who you are. If a citizen can be stopped why should others not be required to be stopped. We are all in this together, so if you are within the borders of the US and you are not supposed to be here because you don't have proper identification, then you go back to where you came from, simple as that. You so-called AMERICANS sound as if you haven't travelled to other foreign countries, let me assure you, the laws are tougher in other countries, in fact, america is a joke to them. Ask any american who has been improperly imprisoned in a foreign country, that is when you know about law. I will say again, wake up and smell the coffee, this has gone on so long they are now close to being a majority in this country - they think this is still part of MEXICANA ask any of them

So-called Americans don't run around making racist laws and pretending they apply to "everybody"...then defending them because other countries do worse. This is America. You want us to be proud of legalizing hate and sanctioning bigotry because some countries still do? Alabama and the racists who enacted and back this law are the ones who are playing a sick joke and making a mockery of everything this country stands for. Unless you're a Native American, I suggest you start packing your bags to "go back where you came from" if that's how you feel.

So-called Americans don't run around making racist laws and pretending they apply to "everybody"...then defending them because other countries do worse.

how is this law racist? you won't answer because you can't.

I answered this at post #1.12 but let me answer this question here too.

It's racist when two people are traveling at the same speed and the officer pulls over the vehicle that happens to be driven by a person of Mexican descent. Doesn't matter if he's a second generation born in the US, just because he looks Mexican he is continuously harassed by the police.

A white man/woman when pulled over has to present his/her drivers license, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance. A person that looks Mexican has to provide proof of his right to be in Alabama plus all the other papers even though his mother and father were also born in the US. If you can't see that as racial profiling then there is no need to go any farther.

I must have missed the part where it said that either of these people detained were of Mexican descent. In fact, another article I read about this incident said the Mercedes-Benz employee was from Germany, so I really doubt that the police mistook him for a Mexican. So explain it again, how do you figure that this is racial profiling?

All you idiots hating on Alabama. Don't live there. No one there cares what you think. While your pitiful states crumble under the weight of uncontrolled immigration, Alabama cares enough to enforce it's laws (including the federal one the feds won't). Stop whining about how Alabama doesn't want to be as stupid as you.

Ahhh yes, the great state of Alabama, where your mama and daddy just might be your aunt and uncle.....the gene pool in the south is putrid.

AP

Please tell us where the law states any race. While you are at it guess what country the Mercedes Rep and the Honda Plant worker were from. Hint it wasn't from South of the Arizona border. Are you really that ignorant or maybe you have a copy of the law that the rest of us dont have

Please tell us what race illegal is. Your whole post is BS because you pulled the worn out race card and it has nothing to do with the law. Go sit back on your mommy's couch and let grown ups discuss this.

For all of you bagging on Alabama especially those that are out of a ob. You might just consider heading there to get one. Businessweek is projecting over 10,000 high tech and auto worker jobs ( not minimum wage jobs) there within the next 2 years. Those are direct jobs working for the companies and not counting the indirect jobs those direct jobs will create. That also doesn't count the construction jobs that will be created to build/expand plants all over the state.

Honda doing a $191 million dollar addition

Mecedes doubling the size of their plant from a $2 billion dollar facility to a $ 4 billion dollar facility 400 jobs

Raytheon $70 million dollar facility and 300 new jobs

Qualitest Pharmeceuticals 200 new jobs

TVA $4.9 billion to complete Bellefonte Nuclear Plant

Teledyne Brown Engineering 50 new jobs

People Tech 200 new jobs

Toyota $147 million to increase the engine production at their Alabama plant to include 4 cylinder engines 240 jobs

Thyssen Krupp $5 billion steel mill 2700 employees

Carpenter Technology $500 million facility 241 employees

Topre America $109 million 250 jobs

Hyundai $173 million expansion

Navistar will begin producing buses and medium and heavy duty trucks 2,200 jobs

HKMC $4 billion 2700 jobs

Most of these are coming from other countries to build in Alabama so if they aren't worried about the laws then why should any legal resident of the state?

so larry,

the alabama law states that police should pull over a vehicle with brown people in it versus white people?

when i asked how is this law racist, i was asking for specific verbage from the law that proves it is racist. not some half-assed theory of how somebody thinks it will work. try again.

AP..."Alabama and the racists who enacted and back this law are the ones who are playing a sick joke and making a mockery of everything this country stands for."

Oh really...what does this country stand for? All men created equal...unless your an illegal alien and then you should be able to willfully disobey the countries laws....especially if your Hispanic.

"Unless you're a Native American,..." LOL!!! Every human in the Americas is an immigrant or descendent of an immigrant. Humans are not "native" or "indigenous" to the Americas. But let's take your concept back to the point "Native Americans" and Europeans had a common ancestor, that makes us all related. We're all distant cousins, consequently Europeans have a right to the Americas because their ancestors got her first.

"So-called Americans don't run around making racist laws.." Like IndependentByChoice asked, how is the law racist? AP, please provide a link to the law proving it is racist or biased against any one group of illegal aliens.

Lockwood - It doesn't matter how you try to cover up and explain yourself. We all know you hate Mexicans.

Keith-1952

Lockwood - It doesn't matter how you try to cover up and explain yourself. We all know you hate Mexicans.

This reminds of the time a friend of mine and his brother were jumped by five mexicans. The police got there and arrested everyone. In court the mexicans said my friend and his brother started the fight because they didn't like mexicans, and were calling them racial names before the fight started. You should've seen their, and their attorney's faces when my friends wife was called to testify. Her maiden name is Martinez, and her parents legally immigrated from Mexico. Funny how people like to use the race card when they know they're wrong!

William Root

Thanks and your story rings very true. I grew up in Cochise County Arizona and have many friends that were hispanic and many of them first generation legal.

One of those friends lived with us for over a year after his parents kicked him out of the house. My parents didn't hesitate to take him in and treated him just like the rest of us.

I also had several soldiers that were from other countries, such as Nicaragua, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam.... But Keith thinks he knows better. Just his ignorance showing!!!

And we should arrest any of those damn furriners that might show up at their plants.

You know one of those arrested was a German Mercedes executive visiting the plant that Mercedes built in Alabama. With their plans to build another plant in the US, what do you think the chances are that they will build it in Alabama again. That's a big zero.

Jon, you would think that they would love it, they are building a plant in America it should be ran by AMERICANS. This sure proved that didn't it! I think Alabama is onto something..... Would love it if my state would do that!

My bigger question would have been.....If the man is only visiting, how did he get pulled over? Did he break some sort of law to even be noticed? If I am visiting lets say Germany, and I just go to and from a work location to dinner, back to my hotel... unless I speed back to the hotel I am not going to raise the flag that I am even there. So how did they know? Did he get pulled over for a moving violation?

I guess you've never worked in a business that is international, have you? International companies have employees from many countries who visit one another to collaborate. Mercedes is very unlikely to open another plant in a state where, when they send one of their executives to check up on progress, he gets arrested walking down the street simply because he doesn't have his passport and has a German accent.

Mercedes built a plant in Alabama that does employ Americans. They don't send over a bunch of German's to run it. Most Americans are happy to have that kind of investment from the best car manufacturer in the world. I'm sure Mercedes' next American plant will not be in Alabama and they will be employing the Americans that live in a different, more civilized state.

Dick Durbin, I say it really is good to see that some people are truly american, thanks for your imput.

Then those educated executives should have their passports with them, shoudn't they ? Since those kinds of visitors are normally here legally. Time is important to executives so it would be much faster to enter through an international airport than it would be to go to Mexico and sneak in. I believe you're supposed to carry your visa with you at all times, even if you're an executive.

Well Jon, I think that he is IGNORANT then, if I was walking in Germany you better believe I wouldn't have left my hotel without my passport, its people like you always thinking the worse. This man was released, it will do him good to pass around the "NEW RULES". As if showing a passport is harming anyone.

Lighten up, you never know, maybe Mercedes will be proud to work in a country that cares who comes and goes. Psstt... by the way Jon... THEY DO, they have rules we don't even know about, rules that make us look like childs play. And I know, my BFF lives in Germany. . Maybe they will build more factories even one in Arizona!

Open your mind to the possibilities of a country that can run by the american sweat again. I know I sure am EXCITED!!! I understand I have a job picking tomatoes for $2.00 a basket, and 10 hours to get as many as I can! I am gonna be RICH in no time at all!!

hmmm.... $2.00 x 20 an hour x 10 hours = $400.00 a day I will work 4 days a week thats $1,600.00

Medical insurance will cost me $3500.00 a month... oh wait.. maybe I will have to work 5 days a week. hehe

THis is ONE AMERICAN that is EXCITED about the change coming...I am excited and PROUD to call this my home. The land that is TIRED and giving herself a facelift!!

ha. ha. ha. Are you being sarcastic? Yes every American should earn their living by their sweat and hard work. The reality is no one does that anymore. Mercedes opening new plants in Arizona or Alabama? Good grief. International business would prefer states that have friendlier atmospheres. It's time we need to learn to shut up and work with our two hands during these tough times. No one steals the job from you if you work hard and are otherwise capable as the Mexican, German, or Korean guys sneaking across the border. And make everyone carry their American passport around for a change. Have your white, black, and asian kids carry their "papers" to school everyday. Wait I forgot this is America and not a nazi-run police state or a communist country...

What is a foreign auto maker doing employing foreigners in the United States? Maybe a better question would be. "Why are American BUSINESSES trying to get REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS to INCREASE the special visas for HIGHLY SKILLED FOREIGN workers, instead of hiring HIGHLY SKILLED AMERICAN WORKERS????????

Why would the Mercedes executive be offended by this? He's in a foreign country, he should've been carrying his papers, just as Americans visiting Germany are required to have their passport, visa, etc with them. The mistake was his. I see no reason why Mercedes or Honda would feel they don't need to obey our laws just because they have manufacturing plants here.

Jon

Your posts above are showing an ignorance to everything from economics to the law. I don't think the Mercedes Company is planning a second plant in the U.S. It is however, expanding the one it already has and has already began that expansion of over $2 billion dollars at the Alabama plant.

The employee in question knew he was wrong since he didn't have any identification with him at the time of his being pulled over.

Have you ever been pulled over by a police officer? Is it unfriendly of him if he asks for your driver's license or proof of identification Jon? Have you ever been to a foreign country and been pulled over Jon? Nothing unfriendly or racial about the law. Cops aren't pulling over and arresting record numbers of illegals in Alabama and the law wasn't designed to do that in the first place but then ignorant people just can't grasp that fact.

Do yourself a favor, go to Mercedes website and look it up so your posts won't sound as ignorant as they do to those that actually go beyond their own opinion to do a little research.

Doesn't protect Americans with a funny accent. They get hauled to jail every time a cop talks to them.
That's got to get irritating after 20 or 30 times. Sure when you finally convince them you're not an illegal, they let you go. But the next cop who sees you will just haul you back again...

That would not happen with the correct papers and ID.

Dick...are you stupid?

mphill.

Correct papers? As in show us your papers?

The Nazi's loved that idea. Seig Heil!!!

You have got that right Dick Durbin, Go Alabama!!!!! Do the job the U.S. Government failed to do, stop

12 million criminals from illegally staying in America, like the 9/11 Hijackers and the unknown number of

murders,rapists and child molesters that came with them, all you bleeding hearts that support them are

just as guilty as they are, you are helping them.

The German executive in question was stopped at a police road block that was basically rousting passersby. He wasn't carrying his passport on him; in most of Europe if you're an American visiting you don't have to carry your passport at all times. But in 'bama, we're going back to a hamfisted 20th century model. Quick, git them boys!

Thanks jnessler. If the politicians who got rich off of the backs of these illegal mexicans where to be put in jail, this would not continue. There is a lot of cash flowing somewhere - more than 12 million people didn't just pop up and were here overnight and stayed, this people are still coming here and the numbers are growing and as long as politicians are getting paid illegally, this will continue. Mexico doesn't want most of there own people, this way if someone gets paid to look the other way, the money that the illegal earns goes right back to Mexico, this is the biggest ponzee (excuse spelling) scheme, bigger than Bernie Madoff had, but because politicians are doing it - it is legal, go figure.

Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States clearl states as follows :

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this
Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against
Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the
Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

Therefore the Federal Government has failed to perform its constitutional duty of protecting each state from invasion. And before anyone claims this isn't an invasion, if 2,000+ people a da pouring over our border uninvited isn't an invasion, I don't know what is. The fact that they're not wearing uniforms means nothing.

Don't believe it ? Google U.S. Constitution and click on the first listing, www.archives.gov, then click on the "Read Transcript" button.

mphill

That would not happen with the correct papers and ID.

So now we have two castes of workers... those who look and sound funny and have to carry around their papers.

And the white people with no accent who don't get a second glance.

Do you REALLY think that's any way for people to live?

And do you REALLY think that cops won't haul them to the station anyway, just to verify the authenticity of their papers?

Soldier's Dad.

No debate on what the constitution says but ... Illegal Immigrant Workers = INVASION ..... give me a break.

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

cgtrav

What would you call 12-20 MILLION Illegal Aliens in this country. If not an Invasion WHAT???

slodon

cgtrav

What would you call 12-20 MILLION Illegal Aliens in this country. If not an Invasion WHAT???

Capitalism in action? We demand cheaper labor. They provide cheaper labor. Supply meets demand!

An infestation?

MSpielman--

That's not capitalism. True caplitalism involves a set of rules by which everyone must play. Where certain participants engage in ILLEGAL behavior by hiring ILLEGAL workers, they are able to out-compete the LAWABIDING companies who hire LEGAL workers and pay them a LEGAL wage with benefits. Hiring ILLEGAL workers is NOT capitalism--- IT'S AN ILLEGAL BLACKMARKET.

The LAWBREAKING companies are also shifting the cost of doing business on the backs of the American taxpayers, as when they pay their ILLEGAL workers poverty level wages and NO BENEFITS, the American taxpayers must pay the cost of their LAWBREAKING (healthcare, infrastructure costs, etc.). The cheap labor force for which you so unprincipally advocate is NOT CHEAP--- IT'S JUST A COST-SHIFTING MECHANISM WHEREBY AMERICAN TAXPAYERS ARE FORCED TO PAY DE FACTO CORPORATE WELFARE TO THE LAWBREAKERS and these LAWBREAKING PROFITEERS can profit even further because the true cost of doing business is not reflected in the goods they sell.

MSpielman said:

Doesn't protect Americans with a funny accent. They get hauled to jail every time a cop talks to them.

mphill said:

That would not happen with the correct papers and ID.

Take a look at this clip from an Associated Press article:

Houston chef Leonard Robert Parrish, 52, ran afoul of a law intended for illegal immigrants.

The Brooklyn-born Parrish went down to the Harris County Sheriff's Office in September to clear up a problem over a couple of bounced checks. He wound up in jail on immigration charges. He was strip-searched and spent 12 hours in custody.

"The deputy told me I had a foreign accent," Parrish recalled. "I told him I had an East Coast accent. He said, 'It sounds like a foreign accent to me.'"

A 2008 Texas law required a person's citizenship status be linked to his driver's license. A sheriff's deputy told Parrish he was detained because when they ran his driver's license information through their computer, it said that his citizenship status was "unknown."

"I served on a murder jury in Texas and they can't find out I'm a citizen?" asked Parrish. "I'm still fighting.... Nobody wants to take responsibility for locking me up for no reason."

Cgtrav,

2000 x 365 = 730,000 per year, almost a quarter million people coming here ILLEGALLY. Any way you slice it that's an invasion. And those are conservative figures.

That should be three quarters of a million people a year, or 7.3 million in ten years, plus the 12 to 14 million already here.

That's a really, really, pathetic model. And do you want police intervening in the rest of your daily life, too?

Tet,

That already happens because of the patriot act. We cant do to much about that until both sides come together and put in place people who have the USA as their priority.

Lets get back to immigration. If you really want to help these people. Support legal immigration. At least they can earn a legal wage, Be able to receive social security at retirement. They would feel as part of the community and not hiding from it. As it is right now they are being robbed by the employer and by the government. Do not be a liberal who supports modern day slavery. Be a concerned conservative who supports legal immigration,

Response to 5.9

Mspielman,

The United states is changing, We are going toward European type society. Yes even whites get hauled off to jail for not having a drivers license ( correct papers ). The liberals have been pushing for a politically correct society and this is a byproduct of that push. Everyone is equal and no one can be trusted. This is what happens. Can you honestly say you know all your neighbors, All the families in a town? Not to many people can today. The only way for law enforcement to know is for everyone to carry papers.

I am for legal immigration. I am against the blatant disregard of the USA laws. I am also against the liberals perpetuation of modern day slavery. Just so they can have cheap cucumbers and tomatoes.

A DL is just that. Proof of your right to drive. They do not indicate your legal status.

Your drivers license is a form of ID. It is accepted by all banks, Law enforcement agency, Social Security office. You even have to show it going into some federal buildings and local court houses. Even your legal status can be traced using your drivers license.

You are aware that there are states that do not require citizenship in order to obtain a license?

mphill: You said

Even a US born citizen will be detained until they figure out who you are.

Are you in favor of that detention being done by the military as well ?

This violates a basic principal, the presumption of innocense. Now a person must prove they are NOT guilty of a crime, the crime being that they are in the country illegally.

I want to hear you say that when your kids are grown and cant get a job, because someone who came here illegally has it.

arch, not a very intelligent response calling them rednecks. Alabama at least recognizes the problem they have with illegals and are attempting to do something the feds won't-protect their citizens.

Rednecks, eh? Name-calling arises from prejudice, not thought. Why don't you make a reasoned contribution to the discussion? Okay, here's my prejudice: I'll bet you are from Massachusetts or Michigan.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in Alabama are rednecks.

Arch-2019969 Why do you use slanderous terms against those who are trying to preserve work for Americans rather than those illegally living in this country stealing away jobs that Americans citizens could hold. Your ignorent comment is only appealing to the growers who would rather take advantage of the migrant worker with poor working conditions and low wages.

I am with you on this one Bill. Apparently some of these people have never been to a foreign country. Hell even in Germany your passport is checked three or four times before you get out of Airport.

The point is not whether or not your passport gets checked when entering the country, it does here just like anywhere else. The point is that in other civilized country you are not stopped and asked to show your passport when you are walking down the street to get dinner. That is what happened to the visiting Mercedes executive, and he was arrested for not having it on him. If you have much travelling experience you will know that in some countries hotels actually hold their foreign guest's passports, and in others you are advised to lock it in a safe and not carry it.

No doubt that arrested Mercedes exec went home, and quite probably he advised his company to never open another plant in Alabama.

He also might say I was wrong for not having my papers. That is a safe place to take my family.

Thanks Bill, it really is quite simple. I like you have travelled to many, many countries around the world and you are correct, you must have your ID on you at all times, in fact, every american citizen has to have some sort of ID if stopped by the law, the reason for all these issues about illegal immigrants - plain and simple - follow the money tree it will = politicians bank accounts for sure. Yes, all legal immigrants should know that helping a foreigner stay within the borders of the US is illegal and should be fined and imprisoned - everything is so simple, but the confusion is purposely in place - follow the money tree and it will take you there.

As far as other countries they take their immigration more serious than the united states.

I have had to leave my passport at the front desk of a few foreign establishments. I have also been asked by foreign police who thought I looked out of place about my status. However i was never arrested due to the fact that a phone call and or the correct documentation allowed me to do so.

I am for legal immigration. I am however against this intentional disregard of the laws and the liberals perpetuating modern day slavery.

Jon

"The point is that in other civilized country you are not stopped and asked to show your passport when you are walking down the street to get dinner. That is what happened to the visiting Mercedes executive,"

I think you pegged out the full of crap meter on that one JON!!!!!! How about another story but don't go so heavy on the BS this time, its getting deep pretty fast from your posts.

sunzanne-1584585: there is NO requirement that a US Citizen, in the united states, carry identification with them. If a law enforcement officer arrests you, they must have probable cause to believe you are guilty of a crime. Failure to have identification IS NOT A CRIME. Also, combined with they right to not incriminate yourself, an officer would have no basis for arresting someone simply because they do not show identification.

Lets go back 111 years to Ellis Island. When the Italians, Poles, Austrians, Yugoslavians, Germans, and other ethnic group came here, they did it LEGALLY!! Worked hard and made something of themselves.

Paid Taxes and loved the AMERICAN dream..Not all were law abiding, but most were. It was much better, than where they came from. Now why do we cater ESPECIALLY to the mexicans..Let them go to Ellis Island and do it the right way,like ALL of our ancesters did.They don't want too. They want that money to go back to Mexico, not here. They thumb their noses at us...I can see why REAL AMERICANS are so damn mad...They also suck our resources dry. Look at California schools..

The system will correct itself. You may pay more at the grocery store, but it will correct itself.

However Glockhead you should be ashamed in wanting to perpetuate slave labor. The farmer gets over. They don't have to pay real wages, they don't have to pay into social security. They don't even have to pay the correct taxes the way the system is set up now. However the working class tax payer is having to foot the bill on social programs that a employer could assist with.

Hmmmm....$2.00 a basket and I pick 20 baskets in an hour 2 x 20 = $40.00 per hour under the table??

Where the hell do I sign up!!????

@Glockhead

Tough to compete against the welfare state. Why would anybody want to do an honest days work in the fields when you can make as much or more collecting hanouts.

I'd rather grow my own tomatos and cucumbers then be swamped with foreigners. What's wrong with wanting to live with culturally similar people. You know. Fellow Americans. Come to NYC. You'll think u were in Peking.

What's wrong with foreigners? Your statement shows the xenophobia that is overtaking reasonable thinking in America.

The problem Alabama is experiencing is not that the illegal immigrants have left, it is that the legal immigrants and legal US citizens have decided they don't want to deal with the legalized harassment. Just as many blacks left the South when Jim Crow laws were passed with the intention of "protecting jobs" and "preserving our democracy" so again these are modern Jim Crow laws aimed at what is currently the largest minority in the history of the country, those of hispanic decent.

White conservative evangelicals will find that they are going to lose their ability to be the ruling party, very soon. When they do, the minorities they oppressed while trying to hold onto power will remember and not be happy.

Jimmy Prince said:

if these immagrants want a fear free environment then come to the us legally...

And then you have cases like this when you're legal for decades and then ICE tells you out of the blue that you aren't anymore because they frakked up decades ago:

When Angela Boneva, a 34 year old went to renew her passport in 2003, the State Department told her she was no longer a citizen. Boneva's father was born in Indiana, and the US consulate in Bulgaria gave her U.S. citizenship while she was growing up in Bulgaria in 1981.The State Department said that an employee at the consulate broke a rule that required her father to have lived in the U.S. for 10 years before she was born, the Tribune reported. Her father had only lived in the U.S. for six years before Angela's grandparents moved to Bulgaria. The experience has left Boneva frustrated, and afraid to apply for a new driver's license, look for a new job or even travel to visit her sick grandmother in Rousse on the chance that she could be accused of identity fraud."I don't want to go back because I'm afraid it would be a one-way ticket," she told Tribune.

And this case--this isn't even her fault...

Blanca Catt, who at 19 still lives at home, wants to join the military. Instead she lives in fear she'll be deported. Catt, born in Mexico and smuggled into the U.S. as a toddler, was seized from abusive parents by the state of Oregon and placed into foster care with the Catts when she was 5 years old. The Catts adopted her three years later and said caseworkers told them their daughter automatically became a U.S. citizen.
That was not true. When Blanca tried to apply for a driver's permit at 16, she learned for the first time that crucial paperwork had never been filed to make her a legal resident. She's been in limbo ever since, unable to apply for jobs or loans, or even fly to Disneyland with her graduating class. Now Catt is caught in a bind. Since she has turned 19, she faces tough penalties for being in the country illegally. If she is deported, she would have to wait 10 years to apply for re-entry. Lisa Catt, Blanca's mother, is frustrated that state workers never completed the paperwork and then failed to tell Blanca's adoptive family of the omission.

And this one...

Mr. George Ibarra, 46, was born in Mexico but was raised since infancy in Arizona. In his late 20s he enlisted in the Marines and served three years on active duty, including time in Iraq, before being honorably discharged. On February 23, 2011 Department of Justice adjudicator Richard Phelps ruled in Eloy, Arizona that George Ibarra had by a preponderance of the evidence proven that he is indeed a citizen of the United States. Rather than apologize to Mr. Ibarra for previously wrongfully detaining him, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is holding Mr. Ibarra in solitary confinement at the Eloy Detention Center, in clear violation of the U.S. Constitution and a memorandum requiring Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to release anyone with "probative evidence" of U.S. citizenship.

Jimmy Prince said:

if your here ilegally you have no F RIGHTS @!$%#s.

Actually, the Constitution says otherwise. See here:

Amendment 5: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Constitution says 'no person'. It doesn't make the distinction between Us Citizen, or immigrant, illegal or undocumented; it says no person shall be deprived of life liberty or property without due process of law nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.'

ICE detains immigrants, both legal and illegal, in deportation camps, sometimes for years. They have something set in place called 'administrative removal' which means they can deport someone without ever seeing a judge, violating their 'due process of law' rights. Their property, like cars, houses, etc. are seized and disposed of at 'public auction' or 'government auction' and the money is taken into the Treasury without the immigrant who bought it receiving any proceeds from the sale.

Something is wrong with your first story. If Boneva's Father was born in Indiana he is a US Citizen. The story does not state whether Boneva was born in the US or Bulgaria. If she was born in the US to at least one US parent, she is a US Citizen. If she was adopted there was apparently some paperwork that wasn't done. The part about her father not living in the US for ten years makes no sense if he was born in Indiana he would be a natural US citizen, even if born to illegal parents just like the anchor babies.

The second story about Bianca Catt should be easily resolved by her family taking the adoption papers to court and completing any uncompleted paperwork through whatever state agency oversaw the adoption.

The third story about Mr. Ibarra should be easily resolved by a friend or relative obtaining a lawyer on Mr. Ibarra's behalf, even through legal aid. With proof of the DOJ ruling by Mr. Phelps this should be easily resolved with compensation for Mr. Ibarra's wrongful imprisonment.

The common thread all these stories share is that parents brought themselves and their children here illegally. Story #1 lacks enough information to form an educated opinion since vital details are missing. Story #2 seems as though it can be fixed with an attorney getting the missing paperwork completed. You may say that the Catt's shouldn't have to go through that expense and you'd be right, however they only have two options, go through the expense and get it straightened out, or not go through the expense to get it straightened out and watch their adopted daughter be deported. The expense and then some should be recoverable by filing suit against the state for failing to complete the required paperwork. Story #3 was addressed above.

The crux of the matter in all three of these stories is that if the parents had not come here illegally their children would not be in these situations. Sometimes illegal acts have unforseen consequences.

At least they are looking at Alabama to build. It looks like they bypassed your state.

Kelly: Good luck getting those international companies to build in your back-woods state!

Apparently you missed the fact that those companies have ALREADY built plants in Alabama.

soazDan.

That was before they realized the loonies were in charge. Don't look for any new forgien plants anytime soon.

And Mercedes can just close that plant and move to a more civilized state. I bet their quality assurance department is complaining loudly about that decision already, anyway.

I'm sure they picked Alabama as one of the lowest wage states in the US, but most times you get what you pay for.

Jon, you're unfortunately right. When you have a potential workforce largely made up of high school drop-outs and people with long-term chronic diseases like diabetes and high blood pressure, with no tradition of a voluntary work ethic, well, yeah, ...

Alabama has always welcomed legal immigration.

North Alabama is home to more than 80 international companies. Collectively these companies represent 18 different countries. The people and business culture of North Alabama are very supportive of international investment. In fact, Toyota Manufacturing and others have become an integral part of the region's leadership structure. North Alabama’s economic boom actually began because of an international presence. The German rocket scientists who arrived here after World War II set the stage for North Alabama’s Aerospace and Defense Industry as we know it today.

Don't you mean, Alabama used to welcome legal immigration? The majority of the Latinos who fled the state after passage of this law were legal. They left because they were afraid of getting hastled and arrested, not because they weren't legal, but because they were poor immigrants who obviously weren't native Alabamians.

Jon

Again pretty heavy on the BS. I think your oxygen supply has been diminsihed by the amount of crap you are trying to spread.

Please show us where mostly legal immigrants have fled Alabama. You can't so why don't you shut off the BS machine.

Amanda

Of course a few mistakes will be made, but you are mixing the story up because everything you mentioned was done by the Fed and not the state of Alabama.

So, the fed made a few mistakes over the last 10 years but you try to make it sound like it happens all the time and that is not even close to the truth. In fact most of those people that were deported that were actually legal residents had mental health issues and claimed they were from other countries.

As for the way the deportations are set up, most of those that don't go before a judge have already gotten a deportation order that they failed to abide by. In other words they already got their day in court but didn't leave. So why should they get a second time around. That is just piling more cases on the judges don't you think?

Go ahead pull out your so called scientific report with the numbers showing how many people have been detained blah blah blah. I don't mind showing you again where the numbers and your ommitance of important facts can make anything sound right.

You didn't mean "cajones", did you? No sabes?

Glockhead

120,000 to 180,000 and many of them drawing entitlements including food stamps, WIC, medicaid....

As for the picking are you really that ignorant to believe that illegals only work in the fields???

who's basing it on skin color, its your nationality that is in question. Not your f'ing color. Getting tired of everyone pulling the race card.

This is for the red, yellow, green, white, black, brown, orange colored people if you are here ILLEGALLY you will be kicked out! PERIOD!

If the Republicans indeed hated Hispanics, they would be rotten people. But of course they don't. You are putting up a straw man and feeling like a hero when you knock him down.

How do Republicans not hate Latinos? Go for it. You will now feel like Iran trying to prove a negative.

Glockhead

You are truly clueless aren't you!!!!!

George P. Bush

Marco Rubio

Fransico Canseco

Mario Diaz-Balart

Lincoln Diaz Balart

Bill Flores

Alberto Gonzalez

Jamie Herrera

Susana Martinez

lleiana Ros Leitinen

Brian Sandoval

Should I go on or is that enough for you to look up for now?

Sub-dude...I agree with you 100%, unfortunately I don't think mattpfl has ever taken an introductory logic course. Probably doesn't understand the straw man argument...(unless the straw man is an illegal) lol.

Why do right winger/conservatives/tea party morons get all mad about illegals coming to this country and washing dishes/parking cars/ picking in the fields and doing jobs white people have no intention of doing but have no problems when corporations outsource good paying jobs to India, China, Mexico! Can you answer that? What happened to the migrant work force that travelled harvesting crops? They don't exist now because Americans specially white Americans think that these jobs are beneath them. That's why we had slavery and cheap labor. Sorry but European Americans are the laziest SOB's ever, and you can quote me!

Re post

Ha the radical left perpetuates Mexican slavery.

The laws of the united states that it is illegal to hire illegal immigrants. The law of the united also states that it is illegal to be in the united states undocumented.

The radical left wants the federal government to overlook these laws to have slave labor in the United States.

That is what you lefties are saying. That it is alright to have some one work in the united states, may or may not pay into social security. However will never receive social security at retirement due to the fact they are here illegally. Works for wages lower than minimum wage. To have a class of people blatantly disregard the laws of the united states. Just so you can get cheap cucumbers and tomatoes. You have proven that you are for yourselves and not then betterment of American society. Modern Day Slave Driver that is what you liberals have become.

The majority of these people are here doing jobs most Americans will not.

doing jobs white people have no intention of doing

This isn't an issue about skin color - it's an issue about our homegrown poor (btw, many of whom are Hispanic) who have to compete with low-wage workers from another country, who come here illegally and will work cheaper - thus depriving OUR poor/poorly educated from getting jobs. I do think we need a migrant worker program for agricultural work (picking crops) because that's a job most Americans of ANY color won't do, as it is seasonal and involves moving around the country. But jobs in construction? Restaurants and hotels? landscaping firms? small factories? those are jobs our own poor/poorly educated can and should get -- if they didn't have to compete with millions of "I'll work cheap" folks from Mexico and central america.

Here in Texas, our high school drop out rate amongst Hispanics is 40% -- THOSE are the ones who will be competing with illegals for jobs that don't require an education. Ironic, isn't it?

Steelman

That is where you are wrong. You keep saying that just like the slave owners did way back then. You liberals say you are for the betterment of people. Yet you keep allowing bad behavior. You say you are for the laws to help people yet you keep wanting to break them. The illegal immigrant is being used for cheap labor. The employer has to pay little or no social security and very little taxes on. The illegal immigrant will never see any social security because the are illegal. There is no accountability.

I am and most conservative thinking people is for legal immigration. That way no laws are broken. The worker gets paid legal wages. Most importantly the employer can be held accountable.

<<The majority of these people are here doing jobs most Americans will not.>> Ouch. That's been said so many times that it's beyond trite. Americans won't take those jobs because they pay so badly. If it weren't for the illegals, employers would have to pay more in order to get workers at all. Then Americans would be happy to take the jobs.

@ Moon this is IRONIC! Didn't even consider that. Ha... twist of fate coming to bite them back

What happened to that migrant workforce that used to travel around harvesting crops is: The illegal aliens invaded and drove down the wage scale so much that Americans can't make a living doing those jobs anymore. A lot of the jobs held by illegals used to be "good paying" (it's well paying, actually) a few decades ago. So in that respect, those jobs are no different from the once well-paying American jobs that corporations are currently outsourcing to India and China. When those jobs are filled by Indians and Chinese, they cease to be "good paying."

Google the Bracero Program..

Yes, and maybe we can have police with really snappy uniforms and big shiny hats! Whoa, it could be WWII all over again.

You won't be detained if you are white! It is a fact! For every 2 blacks and hispanics selling drugs they are 5 white people doing the same thing. Yet for every 2 blacks and hispanics in prison for drugs there is 1 white person for the same offense. I know I know feel sorry for the white man because they have it so bad! I'm almost crying for you! Almost!

WTF......this is not a white issue....stop making it into one. It is a HUMAN BEING issue. Sheeze...and for the record, I am sure you are looking at towns that have more of one color in it than another so the odds would be 2 - 0

Gotyouallfooled

Last time I looked a person of German decent was WHITE!!

Wow, if it's true that there are that many white drug dealers, I guess they must be a lot smarter than the black and hispanic drug dealers, since so few of them get caught.

You won't be detained if you are white! It is a fact!

Seems like a pretty inflammatory allegation...I'm not convinced. If it is indeed a fact, can you provide a link or support your claim?

So you were able to track down you mom finally? What pound did they find her in? What about your pedophile dad he was supposed to be neutered! How is he doing?

cgtrav

Are you aware that Federal Law states that a LEGAL Immigrant or Visa Holder(Tourist and such)ARE REQUIRED to carry their Passport or Visa/Green Card at ALL TIMES while they are in the US???

slodon,

And who decides they are immigrants or tourists. My old boss is a US Citizen with a french accent if he gets pulled over or stopped on the street he can't prove he's a citizen. A license is NOT proof.

"you have the right to remain silent," but as soon as you open your mouth, if you speak with an accent, then law enforcement assumes you are here illegally. They don't even have to prove they have probable cause, just a suspicion, to arrest you. And if you have a middle eastern accent, they'll assume you are a terrorist and ship you off to Gitmo. Good luck getting out of there.

George Orwell was an optimist. Modern conservative AmeriKKKA is much worse.

Good idea, leave!!!

Yes, the American people have become sheep. You have to show papers, you have to die if you get sick and can't afford to pay for the egregious salaries and bonuses of health care robber barons, you no longer have a vote that matters because Democracy has been co-opted by Murdock, a bunch of pinheads on Fox who would rather lie to you than actually do "news", Wall Street, the Koch brothers, and that guy that sadly is still the mayor of NYC, you drink the coolaid and believe that unregulated industry will keep the air and water clean (ROTFLOL), and that if you don't have a job you're just lazy and need a bath, you let Donald Trump (for G*d sake), stick his nose into politics and actually the believe the trash that comes out of his mouth is serious stuff... need I go on?

Oh, and I forgot the "war" on religion -- the only one that exists is the war by the Christians on everything that they know (because God talks to them) is against whatever bit of bs they decide God wants.

Disgusting. The whole lot. We will undoubtedly get what we deserve out of all of this, and it won't be pretty.

Grant

And just what is the FIRST thing that a cop asks for when you are pulled over for Speeding,no tags,or broken Tail Light??? Come on I know that you know this answer. Think REAL HARD. I think you are getting an inkling. I see it in your eyes. YES A DRIVERS LICENSE!!! A FORM OF ID!!! Now in 48 or so States ONLY Legal Immigrants or Citizens can have a Drivers License. Now if you don't have one odds are you may be an Illegal Alien.

You would be detained in any other country. Why don't you try that in Israel or Mexico? Let Bentley grow a set and leave it alone.