Nice to see the weekly tithes going to such great use.

MJ, you're absolutely correct. There is a reason people stopped going to mass. It became very political and failed to keep up with the modern society. When the church realizes it is 2011 instead of 1411, I might consider going, but until then...I'll pass.

This story is absolutely rife with comedic opportunities. How about a list of the rejected slogans for their campaign:

1. "Catholicism - Now with 30% less pedophiles!!"

....hey, I didn't say they were tasteful comedic opportunities ;)

MJ your absolutely correct.

There are also too many inconsistencies in the bible that when questioned your suposed to chock up to blind faith.

Also, the being born guilty of sin thing doesn't bode well with me.

2. "Weekly donation at mass: $5. An unshakeable sense of moral superiority: Priceless!"

3. "The Catholic Church - Have it your way . . . unless you're gay."

Hey Catholic Church! If you have enough money to pay for these TV spots, you haven't paid out enough to the victims of your pedophile priests yet.

FYI - as a Catholic who does attend mass weekly, let me please inform you that the funding of these ads is separate from the general collection taken each week - that it is separate and only people who want their money to go towards these ads are the ones who contribute.

As an aside, I find it quite interesting that so many people are so opposed to these ads, or the Catholic Church in general...after all, if the Church is so "out of touch" with today's world, it seems that people shouldn't be quite so threatened by it. Apparently, the prevailing opinion is to live and let live, unless you're Catholic/Christian; then the tolerance for others disappears and it seems many people have no qualms about making insulting or degrading comments.

@ ktd0410: An appropriate response comes from your own religion:
"YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW."

@ 99octane

Well, to be honest with you, the vast majority people I know who belong to the Catholic Church do not make degrading or insulting comments about others' religions or beliefs; in fact, I can't think of a single one I know who would...I realize that there certainly are people who belong to the Church who do make judgmental comments about others. However, I can only speak from my own experience.

So yes, I agree with you: You do reap what you sow; however, most of the people I know (myself included) are not trying to sow hate or division. Through these ads, I believe the Church is truly trying to sow the seeds of Jesus' love for everyone. That is how it was presented at my church, and I really do believe that is what the Church is trying to accomplish.

Apparently, the prevailing opinion is to live and let live, unless you're Catholic/Christian; then the tolerance for others disappears . . .

ktd0410 - my personal views about the Catholic church were born of nearly 2 decades of first-hand experience. I satirize and poke fun at the institution - not the individuals of which it is comprised. Perhaps that's a thin distinction, but I don't have any problems with you or any other practicing Catholic for your personal views. Peace.

Let's not forget how relevant the church is with leaders who have never had to pay a mortgage, raise children, or the added hardship raising an ill or disabled child or deal with a violent spouse. Then there are the billions in Vatican banks and art that is doing nothing to help the most vulnerable or needy members. We mustn't forget how they continue to allow women and young girls to die because ending their pregnancy has been determined wrong, but not the deaths of mothers needed for their existing children or girls as young as 8 becoming pregnant through rape and incest who aren't physically able to carry a child safely. The Church has withdrawn St. Joseph's Hosp, Phoenix, right to call itself Cathlic because it performed a procedure on a woman whose condition was worsened by her pregnancy, to the point where her death was imminent, doctors said. St. Joseph's officials insisted Tuesday that they tried to save both the mother and fetus and that the decision to terminate the pregnancy in November 2009 was a last resort.

The Phoenix bishop wanted the hospital to give him more oversight of its practices to ensure it complies with Catholic health-care rules; provide education on those rules to medical staff; and acknowledge the bishop was correct in the dispute over what he deemed an abortion

Now they think running ads on how people need the Church will bring back old or draw new members.

To bad they've never heard of the point of no return.

I'm sure they hid all the homophobes and the child-sex predators and the anti-sciencers.

Anyway, thanks for the warning.

The Catholic Church has no problems with homosexuals as long as they're not practicing. Ironically, I feel the same way about Catholics.

@ktd0410 How about the Catholic Church calling people an abomination, pretty insulting to me. Or telling people that they're going to burn in hell if they don't believe the same thing they do. Pretty demeaning don't you think?

And then they use the Bible, a riveting work of fiction, as their defense. That's like me saying I believe in vampires because Interview with a Vampire or Twilight tells me it's true. Just crazy and misguided to say the least.

UnitedStates1776: Acutally as Christian churches go, the Catholic church is the one that has embrace science the most. The Vatican has a whole department dedicated to it.

what you're defending is something I consider a blight on my species

sowing hate or division... this is the PRIMARY function of religion

Octane, what's YOUR excuse? Are YOU a religion? Is THAT why you are sowing hate and division?

How about the Catholic Church calling people an abomination, pretty insulting to me.

The Church does not call PEOPLE an abomination. It is understandable for gay people to dislike the Church hierarchy, because the Church hierarchy does not accept gay sexuality as a valid expression of, well anything. And while Church teaching does frown on the gay lifeswtyle, not even the most virulently anti-gay clergyman would dare to call gay people an abomination. We are all made by God, after all.

(And when it comes to matters of personal morality, Catholics are required to follow the dictates of their OWN well-formed conscience. That's not quite the same thing as 'doing what you are told no matter what you are told'.)

Or telling people that they're going to burn in hell if they don't believe the same thing they do

The Church does not teach that. It is possible that someone misled you when you were younger. If so, please keep in mind that people make mistakes all the time, even clergymen. Catholics may claim the Jesus is perfect; but they do not make that claim for anyone born afterward.

Does any of the groups that you belong do more to help other people. I do not deny that Catholic preacher had denigrated the institution where they belong , and I also believe that the molesters must go to criminal courts. But insult the hole institution is just bias, Catholics enlighten the world with art this is a way to express their love to God, not other places than Catholic have more visitors in the world, charities all over , parochial schools free of charge in poor countries I'm witness of it.They have Universties where they do researches in ciences , I'm bachelor from the Catholic University, However people like to see only the bad part and make their conclusions base on that , I guess this is a way to feel better, poor things.

First of all, please don't tell me that the Mormon church's ad's are coincidental to who two of the candidates are running for the Republican ticket. Of course they are, and that's ok, but for heaven's sake just admit it!

Second of all, there are many versions of the Christian faith that embrace science more than the Catholics do...United Church of Christ is just one. Unitarians are another. As faith goes, and I was a student, the Catholic religion is conservative, not recognizing woman in any position of serious leadership nor do they recognize gays, just like many other "Christian" religions, including the Mormons. It also has a Jesuit arm, intellectuals who do their best to further social justice and a questioning attitude. There are good things about the Catholic religion, but tolerance is not one of them.

And last, it's not necessary that anyone believe anything they don't want to believe, but if we are to survive together in this world, we need to develop a respect and tolerance for those with different views and ways of spirituality. Happy holiday season, everyone!

"Catholics Come Home---we're sorry about the thing with Father O'Malley robbing your child's innocence."

Not such a catch slogan? How about---"We could almost pass the RICO Statutes."

Stop fleecing these people.

"Well, to be honest with you, the vast majority people I know who belong to the Catholic Church do not make degrading or insulting comments about others' religions or beliefs; in fact, I can't think of a single one I know who would..."

ktd0410, is it normal for those of the Catholic Church to not allow someone else free speech and collapse their comments? I have yet to read one post that was collapsed that didn't have at least a touch of truth to it. Is it that you don't like degrading or insulting, or is it that you don't like someone else who may tell it like it really is? Collapse more of them and keep showing the world your religions true colors. Is that what they call turning the other cheek? I wouldn't be afraid to say that if you could, you would delete their comments, am I correct?

I am going to ask the moderator to please reinstate those collapsed comments, as they are not against the forums rules.

"sweeney151- "the Bible, a riveting work of fiction"

The worhtless opinion of someone who no doubt believes he is descended from a chimp."

Wow neversurrender, and you say his opinion is worthless? It looks as though your comment came from the old church handbook of "How to respond to our detractors" circa-1800s. Try something original.

I went to my cousins catholic wedding 2 weeks ago and I'll be damned if I return to another Catholic church until she marries again.

I was raised in a very conservative catholic home and my father was a 4th degree KofC (hardcore catholics will know what that means) but it will be a very cold day in hades before I will set foot in a Catholic church if the occasion isn't a wedding or a funeral. I didn't believe when my parents forced me to attend as a teenager so its not likely that I would start to believe in their capitalist guilt-trip fiction now.

Happy Advent and a very Merry Christmas to those who choose to believe but I celebrate Yule.

Companies like Coca Cola, Microsoft, IBM are using advertising communication to promote a product. It makes sense for faithful Christians and Catholics to use modern media to promote the most important thing in world, and that is faith in Jesus Christ.”

Of course it makes sense! The Roman Catholic Church, just like the Mormon Church and Coca Cola, is a big business. In fact the RCC is the oldest big business I know of. This flagrant consumerism and superficiality just betrays the complete sham that is the Roman Catholic Church and all religion for that matter.

Seriously, if you have any ability at all to think for yourself then you owe it to yourself to go take a course in science and learn about how the world really works outside your fantasy world of Jesus. You'll find things are MUCH different here in the real world.

The Catholicism Theme Song;

Sing along, won't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFIkeXQI8nI

epistmologist....You give NO REASON why it was so traumatic for you to attend a Catholic wedding, so what was the point in even posting your comment?

===================================================================

The Catholic Church isn't in the business of just "recruiting" members. There is a year long process, called RCIA whereby people interested or just curious about the Church who come us oof their own free will to attend sessions learning the history of the Catholic Church, the traditions, the laws....everything. After investigating those many aspects, the choice whether to continue further is theirs alone. If they don't feel the Catholic Church is for them...fine. For those who wish to pursue it further there are more sessions, sponsors, discussions, study and then IF THEY CHOOSE will be welcomed into the Catholic community and receive the Sacraments of Initiation. If they were baptised through another church, we honor and accept that baptism, without baptising them "in the Catholic Church"..

So my point is, Catholics are not beating the bushes to proteslitize or "shove religion down anyone's throat". I have never heard any Catholics denegrate any other religion, no matter Christian or otherwise. People are all too gullible to believe every rumor and horror story about the Church without the slightest question. Some want to bring up the Crusades of ancient times....operative word "ANCIENT". We don't still wail and hold non-Catholics responsible over our being thrown to the lions, burned at the stake, beheaded, boiled in oil. I think it is time also for some people who enjoy rehasing the pedophilia situation to move on. The Church and the law enforcement has acted upon that issue. Guilty priests have been defrocked, dismissed, jailed and the Church has supported financially, for psychological help for the victims, also paid millions in settlements. No faction or person was more hurt, disgusted, shocked, angry than the Catholics around the world. Why so many get some sort of voyueristic pleasure of constantly rehashing it...well, they just "ENJOY" talking about it and that says more about them than the Church. The Church condemsn no person...that authority is God's alone. Not man's. We can and do strongly oppose and our church law forbid acts, such as jihad, capital punishment, abortion, homosexuality, but not the persons or people. So many overlook the thousands/millions good acts performed by the Church and individual Catholics around the world...hospitals, schools, universities, shelters, feeding, clothing, install wells for clean water to places like Haiti and other third world countries' people, medical and dental care, protection for abused women, and on and on. NO, some prefer to focus on failings of minute percentage of all priests.

And I will say there are a LOT of Catholics who are not happy with certain aspects of the "business end" of the Churchs' operation, some priests are pompous asses, but in matters of the basic beliefs and traditions of the Church, we believe.

SO...bottom line, we're not coming for you, and if you want you are welcome to come to us.

Well, no big shock that my comments were collapsed (1.2 and 1.4). Ironic, though, that both received significantly more "likes" than any of the pro-Catholic comments in the same thread. Oh well, I guess the offended "e-tattle-tales" didn't see, or chose to ignore, the distinction between attacking the institution versus its members. Nor did they make any attempt to discuss or understand my clearly different views. Again, I'm not surprised, as religion seems to have an obscuring effect on the perceptions of true believers. But, it's disappointing nonetheless.

@Aggie, Does the concept of SARCASM mean anything to you?

You said, "I have never heard any Catholics denigrate any other religion, no matter Christian or otherwise".

You have either got to be a marketing major w/ a gift for shoveling crap or your head is so far up your colon that I am amazed that you can still breathe.

Idiots.

The Catholics provide more services to the poor than just about any other organization. What have you done?

Catholics to air national TV ads

Good idea!

"must spend money to cram dogma down public's throat!"

Nobody's cramming anything down your throat.

As for helping the poor, the Catholic Church provides not millions, or billions, but trillions in support of the poor; and money is not the only way to 'champion' the poor.

No doubt you are a vocal advocate for the poor and downtrodden, but there is no evidence of it in your post, Nick. You don't need to present any bon fides, but your complaint about evangelization is not valid.

Attend any Catholic Mass and you'll hear a homily that exhorts everyone present to "champion the poor" in real and valid ways as part of daily life, not by tearing down, but by building up.

Did you complain when the Mormons did it?

I'd bet you would love House of Satan ads!

They're lay people, and they're inviting the inactive Catholics to come back, not to "cram dogma" but to help give significance and direction to people's lives, as Jesus commanded. In every diocese across the US and throughout the world, there are organizations helping the needy in education, food, clothing, hospitalization or clinical care, unwed mothers, abused women, the elderly, etc. Have you considered doing something yourself, or are you just doing next to nothing and then criticizing to feel superior?

The Roman Catholic Church is not paying for this. Even if they did, the church spends billions of dollars on charity services. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. If they spend 4 million on evangelizing.. Thank GOD... it's about time!

RollaTiger stated: The Catholics provide more services to the poor than just about any other organization. What have you done?

I think we can safely say we haven't molested hundreds of kids, or moved the responsible priests to new hunting grounds instead of turning them in to law enforcement. We haven't ostracized segments of the population over a confused concept of a "lifestyle choice." We haven't kept women and families in the dark ages by condemning birth control. We haven't spent money for victims, or the poor, on recruiting Christians. Personally, not only have I served my country in the military, but I presently help child victims of sexual abuse. What have YOU done? Catholics, your time of penance for the crimes of your religion isn't over. Best to continue being humble.

Absolutely AWESOME POST Jane. I couldn't agree more. Applause from Texas

Nick,

The idea is to bring Catholics back to the church each returning member is likely to put an envelope in the basket every Sunday which will more than pay for the advertising. That is not a criticism the Catholic Church provides a tremendous amount of poverty relief around the world. The Catholics Charities in the US alone spent $23,000,000 last year which is only a portion of US charity work. The Catholic Agency for Overseas Relief I believe contributed $70,000,00. I am not a practicing Catholic but that doesn't mean I can't give credit for the good things that are done.

jkh

Large Jane,

Individuals in any organization can cause damage it does not abrogate good works done for 700 generations. We as a people are responsible for over 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq, that doesn't make all the ood works done by US citizens and their government meaningless.

jkh

good works done for 700 generations

Would those "good" works include

• the Crusades against the Muslims?
• the Inquisition against the Jews?
• burning "heretics" at the stake?
• helping Nazi fugitives evade justice after WW 2?
• teaching children for over 1500 years that Jews are "Christ Killers" and should treated accordingly?
• sending priests and missionaries accompanied by soldiers to foreign lands to impose their faith on the natives?

Are THOSE the "good" works you're referring to?

but trillions in support of the poor AND THEY ARE STILL POOR How is that?

"...but trillions in support of the poor AND THEY ARE STILL POOR How is that?"

-- Because the poor give the money right back to the church, from which the church leaders get another cut!

"Large Jane,

Individuals in any organization can cause damage it does not abrogate good works done for 700 generations. We as a people are responsible for over 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq, that doesn't make all the ood works done by US citizens and their government meaningless.

jkh"

Jim, at least the citizens of this country are standing up against the corruption of this government, can you say the same about the church members standing up against the corruption in the church? Or is that to be overlooked?

These hypocrites and Newt Gingrich go hand in hand. No wonder he became a Catholic. (many of my family members were turned away from these hypocrites for far less bad divorces and such but Mr. Blingrich waltzes in and because he's powerful and famous they cater to his every whim!!!! I detest hypocrites!!!!)

Easy. Quit marrying to have fun. You do NOT know the details of Gringrich's personal life. And I do not like him.

What is it you're afraid of, esq?

Random Guy- You must belong to a "new" version of the church not controlled by Rome. They still claim it is a sin to be gay, they still say divorce is wrong, they use dogma, not The Bible to run the Roman Catholic Church. I'm in my late fifties- I was pre-VaticanII, meatless Fridays, Latin eulogies and priests that could not answer simple questions about how a good Christian should live.
They have made rules that certain things are mortal sins, only to have a different Pope change those rules. BTW -12 years of Catholic school and 2 years of religious studies gives me my understanding of the church.

Enjoy celebrating Christmas This December- on a pagan holiday (Saturnalia - adopted by the church in the 4th century). Christ was born in September, but the church changed that too. Easter Sunday? Feast of Ester- the rites of Spring- another pagan holiday adopted by the church. The Bible gives an exact date of his death, therefore an exact date of his Resurrection, but who needs facts?

Random Guy- You must belong to a "new" version of the church not controlled by Rome. They still claim it is a sin to be gay, they still say divorce is wrong, they use dogma, not The Bible to run the Roman Catholic Church. I'm in my late fifties- I was pre-VaticanII, meatless Fridays, Latin eulogies and priests that could not answer simple questions about how a good Christian should live.
They have made rules that certain things are mortal sins, only to have a different Pope change those rules. BTW -12 years of Catholic school and 2 years of religious studies gives me my understanding of the church.

Enjoy celebrating Christmas This December- on a pagan holiday (Saturnalia - adopted by the church in the 4th century). Christ was born in September, but the church changed that too. Easter Sunday? Feast of Ester- the rites of Spring- another pagan holiday adopted by the church. The Bible gives an exact date of his death, therefore an exact date of his Resurrection, but who needs facts?

Bob in LA

All those years you were in the Catholic church you evidently never read the Bible. If you had you would be better versed on what is sin.

I was in the Catholic church for 14 years. They didn't encourage us to read the Bible. They didn't even give us one. When I got out of that church I ran as far and as fast as I could. Didn't even go to my sister's wedding. Horrible place!!

@TCS - yeah so if he denies himself, he can be welcomed. I would think that it's obvious to all what you are saying. Basically, you are saying it's ok to be gay, in theory. It's when you cross the line and have sex with your same sex partner that you are sinning. That's total hypocrisy. Organized religion should be banned worldwide. Bah. I was raised Catholic, and i hated it. Hands down one of the most boring wastes of my youth. Once I was old enough to realize that it was a load of crap, I was out. Peace. No more money from me. I don't support racists and biggots who decide how i live my life.

You said it Aw. Being gay is ok as long as you don't have sex. What a joke. And as for you TCS-3900151. Don't hold your breath. When I can live openly with my partner of 19 years and enjoy my life maybe I'll reconsider. To many hypocrites in the field of religeon for my taste. Do as I say not as I do mentallity is so wrong.

found out that the path they were on was the wrong one. This is no different with SSA.

Except being gay isn't actually wrong...

You can sit there at your computer or with your friends and make as much fun of us religious types all you want, but at the end of the day, does it accomplish anything more than building up more scorn and hate?

Two things:

1) religion basically BEGS to be ridiculed; and

2) I get extreme enjoyment out of it.... As such, I think the world is a better place when religion is criticized in a logical manner :)

It is wrong to engage in coitus with another person of the same gender

And I also have to ask the question that is the bane of all religion: Why? Why is it 'wrong'? Any logical answer will do.

TCS-3900151

There is nothing wrong with denying yourself of an indulgence that is wrong. Alcoholics regularly deny themselves a drink because it lead them to terrible things. Recovering drug addicts can claim the same. The 300lb overweight man denies himself chocolate because it is bad for him.

All of these are example of people choosing to deny themselves of what, in the beginning, made them feel good, but luckily before it was too late, found out that the path they were on was the wrong one. This is no different with SSA.

So you're saying that being born gay/lesbian is the same thing as being an alcoholic (a disease) or a drug addict. Well, that certainly sounds "welcoming." You're saying that two people of the same sex who are in love with each other, live in a committed monogamous relationship (including having sex) are exactly the same as someone who destroys his/her own life and the lives of those around him/her with a controlled, addictive substance. My, isn't that "inviting?"

Don't forget, no one is born Catholic (or Methodist, or Episcopal, or Lutheran, or Reformed Jewish, or Muslim, or Taoist, or anything else). Everyone is born atheist. Believing in gods and wanting to appease them is a choice. But being born heterosexual, homosexual/lesbian or bisexual is natural and innate. It is not a choice.

A little touchy there Mark.

How in any way would finding religion silly is this embarrassing ME? I think those that congregate and speak to an imaginary friend are the ones who should feel embarrassed. Thanks for the concern though.

Gay. You said enough right there. Go Episcopalian.

I don't support racists

Neither does the Catholic Church.

I think the world is a better place when religion is criticized in a logical manner

Feel free to BEGIN at any time...

Exactly, CommonSense. I see no logic from the haters of the Catholic faith. I would guess that most no little about it. I feel blessed that I was called back to our faith after years (almost 20) of being an atheist. My life is filled with peace!

I am 62 years old, divorced and gay. The church doesn't wany me, they would only want my weekly tything.

Your bitterness is certainly understandable, and no doubt you would feel more comfortable in a church that accepts the openly gay, sexually active lifestyle.

But I don't think you can blame your divorce on the Church. Given the rest of your post, it sounds like you should not have married a woman in the first place. Nor do I think your petty comment about the tithe is in any way justified. And they probably do want you, you just don't want them. Or more to the point, perhaps you feel (with some reason) that they simply don't embrace you "the way you are".

Amen, Linda! ((All heaven rejoices.)

You're wrong. Heaven is shuddering!!!!!!

The Roman Catholic Church in not specifically against homosexual sex: it is against any sex outside of marriage - that goes for non-married straight people too. The teaching is consistent and beautifully articulated by Pope John Paul II in his series of talks on Theology of the Body. More than just a series of talks about sex, it delves into the true meaning of what it is to be human. Basically, the teaching about sex is this: it must be free, total, faithful, and fruitful.

When they stop pushing their thoughts against condoms on others, well they will be less evil than currently.

TSC, I have a question, Ever heard of free will, you know, that thing that was given to all of us by our creator? If you have, why is the church trying to suppress the free will of those who are gay? How can the church try and take something away from them, that was given to them by the creator? When did our creator take free will away from us? Or didn't he? If he didn't, then I would suggest that the church stop trying to take it away from those who are gay. That in itself goes against our creator. Want to argue that point?

They are desperate for your money and little boys. Why else would they go to this extreme. Commercial airtime isn't cheap, and doing this sends a signal to "stay the hell away from them". If they have money to advertise and waste on commercial advertisement, then we all can see now that it's about the money. They should be using all that commercial advertising money to help people in need.

Since they are taking the approach of advertising their business, tax all these religious mudder-fudders.

commonsense..., talk about having the wrong moniker.

So if the catholic church is not against gay people in general, just the sex outside of marriage like you say Bill-S-T, how come they won't just accept gay marriage or do they just like condemning people to hell? Not that I believe in gods, heavens, or hell but I find it ironic that all these religions say god loves you, but if your gay, we can ridicule you, berate you, and make you a second class citizen because converting gay to straight is like forcing your body to grow a third arm. Now a question for all of you, what if it was the other way around? What if the gays were the ones making the primetime commercials saying "It's ok to be gay"? Would you all state that the gays are shoving their lifestyle down your throat, or would you be here praising them like you are the church for shoving their lifestyles down our throats?

Gay sex and marriage is a sin. You love the sinner and hate the sin.

@AngryAmerican55 - Utilizing archaic beliefs only keep you in the stone age. The church, especially the catholic church turned a blind eye to the nazis, has been involved in many atrocities including the massacre of natives (mayan), muslims, and other christians of different beliefs. I find it odd that people do not question a business the size of the catholic church and all it's atrocities but still, to this day, demonizes a group of people who are born the way they are.

Also AngryAmerican55, do you protest divorce as much, or do you pick and choose your sins because it fits you?

I was born Catholic and went to a Catholic university to get my degree. I had an Ethics course taught by a priest, and he explained the church's position on sexual intercourse and marriage. This was in 1978, but I don't think the positions have changed.

The one and only purpose of intercourse is to produce children. Period. The one and only purpose of marriage is to provide a safe environment to raise children. Period. If you are sterile or medically impotent you can't get married because you can't produce children. If you don't discover you are sterile until after you are married you can stay married but it is a sin to have intercourse with your spouse. It is a sin to have intercourse after menopause. Birth control (pills, condoms, IUD, etc) is a sin because it interferes with the creation of a baby. The rhythm method is OK because there is still the possibility that you can get pregnant. Masturbation and non-vaginal sex are a sin because there is no way to produce a baby. Homosexuals cannot marry because there is no natural way for them to produce a baby with their legal spouse. Sex outside of marriage is a sin because if you get pregnant you don't have the family to raise the baby in.

This guy told us he refused to perform his niece's wedding ceremony because she was going to use birth control after marriage. Ask a priest today if the attitudes toward sex and marriage have fundamentally changed in the last 30 years. Pin them down on the details.

For this and many other reasons, I like to refer to myself as a 'recovering' Catholic.

I find it funny that my comments are being collapsed by the community when I've said nothing inflammatory. I merely stated the position of the CC and how they work. I guess that even that was too much for the likes of most of the comment makers. You don't like what you see, collapse it. Shrewd way to do things haters.

TCS- while I do not know why your comments were collapsed-they do reflect the exact reason people have left the church. You "welcome" people but tell them that denying the natural love they feel for someone of the same sex is the same thing as denying themself illegal drugs. It is not-and the fact that you, and the church, miss that fact is the very reason people leave the church.

The church needs to accept that people are far more educated and able to have their own relationships with God without as much direction as they may have needed hundreds of years ago. Providing overal moral boundaries and guidance in reflection rather than just telling people what they can and cannot do.

There is also far to much focus on things of the sexual nature. I believe that one of the proudest aspects that the Catholic Church can claim is its foundation in social justice. Prioitizing the environment over profits, ensuring everyone has healthcare and food/shelter...Feeding the poor, healing the sick...Jesus spent a lot more time on these issues than he did on homosexuality. It isn't all about abortion!

Also, requiring priests to be celibate is not natural-and has no basis in theology. It was started because priests were leaving land to their children. I do not believe this causes men to be pedophiles-though it does provide a place for them to hide-but it alienates people as they question an organization run by people who have chosen an unhealthy, unnatural lifestyle.

angryamerican55

Gay sex and marriage is a sin. You love the sinner and hate the sin.

Says who? you? You are not god. All babies start out as females in the womb. When the X/Y chromosomes begin to change and determine the sex of the child, sometimes it doesn't not make a person 100% heterosexual, therefor creating gay people.

Maybe you should go back to school and learn a thing or two about biology and while you are at it, maybe a few psychology classes as well.

Gay people are born gay as those that are born heterosexual, and those that are born stupid.

Maybe someone should try and explain how a heterosexual couple gives birth to a gay male or female. They weren't brought up in a gay family, yet they were born gay, and being gay is not contagious either. If that were the case, then I must be gay since I have some gay brothers and sister and friends, and yet, I'm still not gay.

Sometimes Angryamerica, all you gotta do is use a little common sense, and then it all falls into place.

Bill S-T-1787120

The Roman Catholic Church in not specifically against homosexual sex: it is against any sex outside of marriage - that goes for non-married straight people too.

Since in several states and many nations gays/lesbians can now be married, does that mean it's okay for them to have sex? They are, after all, married. Can they be Catholic and receive the sacraments, since it's only okee-doke for the Catholic church to have sex withing marriage? Oh, wait, I'll answer for you. The Catholic church does not recognize same-sex marriage, even though it's legal in so many places. But it's still marriage, no matter what the Catholic church says. So how does the Catholic church deal with that? Oh, wait, I'll answer that for your to, to beat you to the punch. The Catholic church doesn't recognize marriages if it's between divorced people unless they get a church-approved "annulment." Yet, the Catholic church hands out "annulments" like toilet paper. I have friends who were married for over 40 years, had tons of kids, now have tons of grandkids, and one of the spouses (usually the husband) got "frisky" for something young and tartish and the ended up divorced and the Catholic church granted a divorce so the old coot could marry his young slattern. I'm an atheist and I told my Catholic old-coot friend who divorced his wife and got an "annulment" so he could marry his floozy that as far as I'm concerned he's still married to his first and one-and-only wife, but the Catholic church said he was never "really" married. And, yet, I also have other friends, both Catholic, both gay, who have been married for years and can't by Catholic church standards be considered "good" Catholics." Okay, I can't answer that. So I'll let you.

@rich-1593542 Uhhhh.... You might want to check your calendar, the 20th century ended almost 12 years ago. We are presently in the 21st century. Also, the Catholic Church does not teach tithing, you have never been required to tithe. You re expected to contribute to the support of the Church, and you can tithe a specific percentage if you want; but you aren't required to. A suggested amount is 1% of your income each week, half to your local parish, and half to a charity of your choice that helps the poor and needy.

!% of your income, and only half to the parish? That wouldn't even keep the doors open and the lights on, would it?

Keep your tithes, Carl.

But Catholics will happily accept the "huddled masses" and cater to those who are "tired" of injustice.

And you're telling us, that if someone joins the church, they would NOT have to tithe? That, I would have to see to believe.

The Catholic Church has never required tithing! You are expected to contribute, but a specific tithe has never been a requirement. There were times where I had no income or resources, and wasn't able to contribute to the weekly collection (The Church was actually paying some of my living expenses), and nobody told me to leave because I didn't put anything in the collection basket each week.

The Catholic Church has never required tithing!

In reality, it most definitely has. You'll want to do some research on this...

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14741b.htm

Parisian,

I'm no fan of what they are doing either, however, it seems your understanding of Catholicism is not entirely accurate. I would encourage you to do some research before making such a comment.

Being a former catholic, I would say they worship God. However, they also worship Mary. That breaks the first commandment of woshipping false idols. It's a religion of hypocrisy in my eyes.

You have my prayers that you will educate yourself more thoroughly - you are mistaken, and are attacking what you think the Catholic Church is, and not what it actually is.

AW from KC - again - another misconception. No Catholic worships Mary. We look to her as an example of someone who said 'YES' unconditionally to God. She lived her life in a way pleasing to God and we would all do well to imitate her. To you I also say - please educate yourself on what Catholics actually believe. May I recommend Catholicscomehome.org as a very good starting point - what have you got to lose? Peace to you.

Annie

Mary NEVER said Yes to god... As far as the myth goes she was impregnated without her consent... She found out when Gabriel came to tell her.

She did not have the chance to say yes or no, In my book, this is rape...

Comming from an extreme catholic background I can tell you that Catholicism is really politeistic... The rest of the "Christian" groups are less so, but still at least are triteistic (no matter how many mental sommersaults they do to make 3 into 1)

Look, I'm not here to argue the legitimacy of Catholicism but we need to get our facts straight:

Catholics DO NOT worship marry, nor do they worship saints for that matter. It is against church teachings. Any Catholic who does, is misinformed. Nor was Mary raped by God, it is stressed that Mary had a choice, and she chose to accept. There are different versions of Marys acceptance. Catholicism is not perfect, but neither is any religion. Again, I'm not defending Catholicism but facts are facts.

@the company

how are facts facts when the bible itself is just a book of made up stories written by all different people that the catholic church then selected which books to include and exclude, none even provable?

how is the bible even considered credible?

i never understood blind faith

Ram Fla

I would respectfully disagree with your statement that Mary did not say "yes" to God. When the angel came to her and explained what was to happen, she said, "I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word. With that "yes" Mary cooperated with God to give mankind his most precious gift -- salvation.

(please note that this may be the second response to Ram Fla. I think my first one got lost)

Parisian

The Catholics worship everything BUT God. Most of their religion stems from pagan beliefs mingled with Christian. Just read their "encyclopedia", they admit it

All Christianity stems from paganism. All religion borrows and steals from each other.

Brendan-

The first line of my previous post read as follows "I'm not here to argue the legitimacy of Catholicism." Which is why I don't quite understand why you are calling me out. I was merely clarifying what Catholics believe because there seems to be some confusion. I never said I agreed with what they believe and, like you, don't understand blind faith. But that is what they believe and that is what I meant by "fact."

Obviously your not Catholic....jerk. You don't even know what you're talking about. They don't worship God?!??!? ....better got off that cheap booze you're obviously drinking.

I guess the Catholic Church really has changed . . . apparently insulting and judging others is now a perfectly acceptable practice. If it wasn't, why would an obviously devout and dedicated Catholic like JFC employ such tactics??

JFC-3426249

Truth hurts, doesn't it. Too bad you're too much of a pussy to actually learn the true history of Catholic Church. More blood has been spilled in the name of christ than in most wars, jerk!

Thats catholics for you! Think of all the history they have caused over the centuries.

Thanks I do think of all the history the Catholics have caused over the centuries...lets see, the founding of the university systems, the founding of hospitals, help for the poor and the afflicted, standing up for the rights of the oppressed. What you don't like is that the Catholic teaching does not agree with you !

@ The Company, Thanks for a clear and factual explanation.

Annie, nice post and a nice link.

JFC, don't take it personally, and don't respond in kind. As St. Francis said, "Evangelize always. If necessary, use words."

@tom, like all hisotry, the TRUE history of the Catholic Church is well worth learning. The good and the bad, without propagandistic distortions. Some of the truth hurts, but much more of it inspires.

brendan, there are FACTS about what Catholics believe. Parisian, RAM, and AW told falsehoods about those beliefs. Others corrected the false statements.

@RamFla

Luke 1:31 [Gabriel to Mary]: Behold, you WILL conceive in your womb ...
...
Luke 1:34: But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?"
Luke 1:35: And the angel said to her in reply, "The Holy Spirit WILL come upon you ...

emphasis added

So it's completely inaccurate to state that Mary conceived without her knoweldge and that she only found out with Gabriel's visit. Moreover, as fredystairs points out, Mary did give her YES to God with the phrase "Behold the handmaid of the Lord, let it be done to me according to thy word", which many Catholics repeat every day when they pray the Angelus. They pray to God, but echoing Mary's words in imitation of her perfect example.

"Obviously your not Catholic....jerk."

And neither are you JFC, with the name calling your not. Hypocrite much?

And what is a "good person"? Are you the judge of what is good and what is not?

Aggie-345886

epistmologist....You give NO REASON why it was so traumatic for you to attend a Catholic wedding, so what was the point in even posting your comment?

===================================================================

The Catholic Church isn't in the business of just "recruiting" members. There is a year long process, called RCIA whereby people interested or just curious about the Church who come us oof their own free will to attend sessions learning the history of the Catholic Church, the traditions, the laws....everything. After investigating those many aspects, the choice whether to continue further is theirs alone. If they don't feel the Catholic Church is for them...fine. For those who wish to pursue it further there are more sessions, sponsors, discussions, study and then IF THEY CHOOSE will be welcomed into the Catholic community and receive the Sacraments of Initiation. If they were baptised through another church, we honor and accept that baptism, without baptising them "in the Catholic Church"..

So my point is, Catholics are not beating the bushes to proteslitize or "shove religion down anyone's throat". I have never heard any Catholics denegrate any other religion, no matter Christian or otherwise. People are all too gullible to believe every rumor and horror story about the Church without the slightest question. Some want to bring up the Crusades of ancient times....operative word "ANCIENT". We don't still wail and hold non-Catholics responsible over our being thrown to the lions, burned at the stake, beheaded, boiled in oil. I think it is time also for some people who enjoy rehasing the pedophilia situation to move on. The Church and the law enforcement has acted upon that issue. Guilty priests have been defrocked, dismissed, jailed and the Church has supported financially, for psychological help for the victims, also paid millions in settlements. No faction or person was more hurt, disgusted, shocked, angry than the Catholics around the world. Why so many get some sort of voyueristic pleasure of constantly rehashing it...well, they just "ENJOY" talking about it and that says more about them than the Church. The Church condemsn no person...that authority is God's alone. Not man's. We can and do strongly oppose and our church law forbid acts, such as jihad, capital punishment, abortion, homosexuality, but not the persons or people. So many overlook the thousands/millions good acts performed by the Church and individual Catholics around the world...hospitals, schools, universities, shelters, feeding, clothing, install wells for clean water to places like Haiti and other third world countries' people, medical and dental care, protection for abused women, and on and on. NO, some prefer to focus on failings of minute percentage of all priests.

And I will say there are a LOT of Catholics who are not happy with certain aspects of the "business end" of the Churchs' operation, some priests are pompous asses, but in matters of the basic beliefs and traditions of the Church, we believe.

SO...bottom line, we're not coming for you, and if you want you are welcome to come to us

Richard....seriously....you don't know the definition of "good". Basically don't be a douche. I guess if you struggle with the definition, you need to stay in church, or whatever entity helps you establish the definition.

Bottom line, we are ALL judges of good/bad behavior. There is no "superior" being floating around in the sky providing the skills to score touchdowns or win grammys.

@#12- Spot on! the Catholic church quit being a non-profit decades ago when they began telling people how they should vote. They have indulged themselves in the anti-abortion fight using church funds which in some cases have been used to intimidate women seeking information about abortion or basic health care, or even bombing clinics and killing doctors.

Tax ALL religious entities, not just the big ones.

Same here. Never watch it. I avoid those channels like the plague.

How about taxing the rich?

Country clubs?

The money given to the Church has already been taxed, and government regulation of religion is thankfully prohibited in this country. You might be happier in Communist China, where the Catholic Church is outlawed.

However, religion seems to be regulating the Government when people are told how to vote and how to live!

Commonsense, I agree with your posts in general, but in this case China has 'allow' the catholic church, it is just controlled by the government. For the rest, there are MANY political non-profits. ACLU, NAACP, etc. Most churches provide better treatment for the needy than the government anyway.

Actually, since a tithe is tax deductible, the tithes are never taxed.

bethcat....You don't know what you're talking about. The Catholic church has never, ever, told anyone how to vote. The most I've ever heard said was "Vote your conscience". And bombing abortion clinics??? More likely the wacko so call Christian fundamentalists...that's not the "Catholic" m. o.

Give it time, friend. There are enough satellite channels to keep everybody on the air. That's if they are not already on the Internet.

I've seen commercials for different religions. In my city there is even a billboard promoting athiests.

It's like if you have all your teeth and don't need Polident, then you need'nt concern yourself with the commercials for that. If you don't like anything religious, then you don't need concern yourself with their ads either.

Last I heard there is freedom OF religion and freedom of speech. Or is that just for the bashers.

From what I understand, that's been tried. With highly mixed results...

Douglas and Richard, do your research. The mainstream LDS church (Mormons) does not condone or support polygamy. It was outlawed prior to the state of Utah becoming a state. There are in fact Fundamentalist groups that support and encourage the practice, however members of these sects have most often been excommunicated from the mainstream church, or were raised by those who were excommunicated and started these sects. The ties between them are no more so than that of Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics.

As to the "cult" comment, all religions are a cult. That is fact. Look up the definition of the word. The question isn't whether or not it is a cult or not, but rather what good are they doing for others (even those who don't share their beliefs)? This can simply be answered by looking at the work of many, many religious charities (Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army come to mind). The question of whether or not these acts are done with a pure heart or with hope of furthering their specific message is subjective and can really only be answered by God, my guess is that the answers would be mixed. Some do it for love of giving, out of a true passion for helping others. Others are simply using it as a gateway to something else.

Jenn...I only call it like I see it. If they say they are mormon...then hey, whatever. What you are describing is like two catholics, but one says the other isn't a catholic because they are gay and pro-choice. See my point? Just as in ALL religions there will be a spinoff of the main tailored to fit alternate "views" of the doctrine. The muslims have sunni/shiite and christians have way too many(lol). Utah was only granted statehood with the stipulation they abandon polygamy. I say let everyone believe and practice however they want within the law...provided "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion." I do believe regulating marriage falls within this realm, seeing as it is a religious practice:)

Jenn, you might want to get your facts straight. Yes, the mainstream church had to say it would not condone or support polygamy, but D&C 132 hasn't been rescinded. The fundamentalist groups are the actual ones practicing true Mormonism because they supposedly follow it to the letter.

As to your "all religions are a cult," Mormonism is an example of a destructive one. Of the 14 signs of a destructive cult, Mormonism can answer "YES" to all of them.

As far as Roman Catholicism is concerned, the way it's acting right now is just as bad as the "I am a Mormon" ad campaign" which, as far as I'm concerned and as I've said, takes Roman Catholicism from a belief system and turns it into a destructive cult. It's doing the same thing as the highest level of Mormon hierarchy does by sending out a booklet saying, basically, "Please come back to the church" when someone puts in an administrative request to "resign" from the LDS church (which, by the way, only means that the person's name is "removed," but it is retained in the LDS databases, so it's never completely gone).

It is called free speech. Also are you saying that religious commercials are destructive?

I will jump on the band wagon with banning certain things. Feminine hygiene products should not be anywhere near a TV screen. That stuff is nasty.

Anita

The reason that the Catholic Church forbids birth control is because it denies the dignity of the human person. Instead of the couple giving to each other, they are taking from each other. In effect, they are saying to each other, "I want you for the pleasure you give me." Not, "I want to give myself to you." Pope Paul VI was very prophetic in his encyclical "Humanae Vitae" (Of Human Life) He predicted that there would be a loss of respect for women from the use of contraception and it turned out he was correct.

fredystairs ... one of the breeders. 7 billion and counting.

As far as I am concerned, commerials selling religion should be restricted from the airways right along with commercials selling prescription drugs . . .

Or, just like prescription drugs, they should be legally required to list the potentially-harmful side effects of their product: ". . . may cause: oppressive guilt, homophobia, self-satisfaction disorder, night-terrors in children . . . " etc. etc.

fredystairs - the church has never respected women. Humanae Vitae just articulated a lame excuse to make it sound okay to keep women in an oppressed state. Until women became able to exercise control over their own bodies they remained second class humans unworthy of respect or consideration as anything much different than property. It has only been in my lifetime that the concept of rape within a marriage became a criminal offense. That wasn't much respect. It isn't much different than any other religion that imposes controls on women's behavior in order to protect men from their baser instincts. Mary is revered only because she is completely non-sexual.

Dear Anita,

Mary is revered as the Mother of God. I do not consider motherhood "non-sexual." Do you? Since Mary was fully human, Mary is as sexual as you or I.

fredystairs: If I understand Catholic doctrine, Mary was perpetually a virgin.

Hi Anita!

I'm not religious..at all...not even a little bit. In fact, I find many religious (Christian) messages to be hypocritical, confusing, and even mean. However, I think that it's important to allow anyone to speak about their religion. As long as the Establishment Clause is upheld, tv commercials promoting religion should be allowed to air.

mkspeaks,

You are correct. That is Catholic doctrine, Mary was perpetually a virgin. However, because someone is a perpetual virgin does not mean that she was non-sexual.

If you think about it, that makes the birth of Jesus all more remarkable -- the birth of a child from a virgin.

The Church teaches that there are two components to the conjugal act. There is a unitive component and a procreative component. The Church also teaches that these two components should NEVER be separated.

This is why the Church is against birth control. It takes the conjugal act and makes it merely an act for seeking pleasure. And if in fact that is all sex is, then there is no reason then that a man should not engage in sex with another man, horse, or himself for that matter. But since the Church holds that sex is not hedonistic, that sex is truly a gift from God for the purpose of procreation and for drawing husband and wife to ever deepening love, then birth control is not an option. The position of the Church is and has been consistent on this.

That's a nice story. But let's face it, the Church sees more potential members to control, more potential tithers to be shamed into contributing even if their faith wanes, more poverty that it can control the remedy of, and more power for itself. The idea that this doctrine is entriely altruistic takes even more faith based on even less evidence than things that Catholics belittle evangelical Protestants for believing, like the Creation being six literal twenty-four hour days.

@MKspeaks 19.7

Even Catholic virgins get pregnant.

@Fredysteairs, 19.2

Humanae Vitae is laughably illogical and a load of marketing BS in an attempt to continue to control women for the gullible. Sex has always been about recreation so their argument is moonglow. It is always amusing that a bunch of while haired geezers that claim to be celibate want to tell others about sex and relationships. I was censored by a nun in CCD for telling her my opinion of their religious doctrine.

Rlquall....huh??

I don't understand what you mean by "story". It is not a story, this is the teaching of the Catholic Church and it is consistent. It is the only position that makes logical sense. If you follow the argument in favor of birth control to its logical end, it will end in supporting abortion. I am not saying that everyone that practices birth control supports abortion, only that by separating the two natures of the conjugal act, they open the path that leads there.

The teachings of the Church are not difficult to understand, they are just difficult for many to accept.

epistemologist:

"Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection."

The above quote is from Humanae Vitae, Section 17. I don't see this section, or for that matter the entire Encyclical, to be controlling of women. I see it as lifting women, and men too, to that dignity that we all have as being born in the image and likeness of God.

@fredy, How is denying the use of BC going to do all of that, or is that going to be explained in the sequal?

Care, affection and reverence come of either partner from the relationship and not the denial of sex because she might get pregnant. Did you ever think that women like sex just as much as men? I come from a big Catholic family but I chose to only have 1 child.

Religious idijts.

The earth is already over populated so they should be teaching the us oif birth control. How many people in 3rd world counties who accept Rome's nonsense are now afflicted with AIDS and other diseases because of those teachings?

The new translation of the missal and the new direction of the mass, instituted. Nov 27, seems to me a way to make the men i.e. priests and above feel and appear superior. I have never heard quite that much about being unworthy. If I was unworthy, Jesus would not have sacrificed his life for me. (yes, and you with a non-belief have just as much right to your non-belief as I my belief.

It truly seems as if the Vatican is trying to punish the American Catholics for our more open attitudes. Not to mention the further denigration of women.

The Catholic church has never had any use for women, unless she is a vowed celibate or pushing out a baby every year. Even then, her 'use' is to be subservient to men.

Been there, done that, thanks anyway.

Why not find ot for yourself, Gorilla?

Leave your wallet at home, and attend Mass every Sunday during Lent. (Lent starts the day after Mardi Gras and continues until Easter.)

Then go to Mass on Easter Sunday to enjoy the big celebration!

And leave your wallet at home.

Leave your wallet at home? Oh that's a laugh...maybe the first trip but not the next. I have sat through enough homilies where the priests laid on the guilt trips about people not giving enough to the church....

And how did you suppose they paid for these Mardi Gras and Easter Sunday Celebrations. By praying HA.

The Sunday collection or tithe is supposed to go to support the work of the church as well as maintain the parish. Except on high holy days such as Easter and Christmas. At least at the church I attended it turns out those particular collections (the largest of the year) went specifically to the parish priest - who a month or so after the Christmas holidays every year spent a week at his time share in Hawaii to recover from all the work he had to direct the church members to do. Of course that was after his preparatory vacation to his time share in Arubi the month before the holidays. I now give my money to charity organizations combating hunger and poverty through the device of micro loans, women's health and establishing water and herd management and development internationally, and cancer and alzheimers research domestically. I prefer to finance people's ability to care for themselves and their children than to finance church orphanages that preach against birth control so they can go around collecting other people's excess children.

Italians? Have you ever been to Italy? It has one of the lowest church-attendance rates in Europe. Walk into one of those magnificent edifices any Sunday morning for Mass and you'll see about a half-dozen elderly women and that's it. Even in St. Peter Basilica for its main Sunday morning Mass, it's now held at the far back altar (the one with the alabaster depiction of the holy spirit dove above it) with a handful of people sitting in the chairs. The rest of the place is empty. Italians ceased being practicing Catholics generations ago.

You are correct and the ones I know can't stand the pope. The Vatican owns more property around the world than you can imagine not to mention they pay no taxes, no utilities and charge to enter their ruins... Not to mention that people are fed up with the pardoning of sex abusers ie,..priests, brothers, bishops, nuns... I often wonder why mothers would continue to support such crimes against the children and the massive cover-up and pardons..... If the mothers all over the world would pull out of the church, the church would soon become a thing of the past, the sooner the better.

I often wonder why mothers would continue to support ... crimes against ... children..... If the mothers all over the world would pull out of the church, the church would soon become a thing of the past

Such flawed logic.

Mothers do not support crimes against children, nor does the Church.

Making the Church a thing of the past would not make crimes against children a thing of the past.

Catholicism is growing in Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

Is it really possible to "embrace" atheism (how does one hug "no one") or agnosticism (not knowing)?

Don't know about where you are, but here all churches pay utilities the same as any other "business" customer would.

Catholicism is growing in Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

Of course it's growing in undeveloped countries with limited access to education, no modern infrastructure, shockingly low human development indices, etc. Makes total sense. Anthropologically, the least-educated, poorest people are always going to be the most religious/superstitious. Think about it. Missionaries find a population of miserable, poor, uneducated people and convince them that they'll live eternally in splendor and glory if they only believe in this one particular doctrine and this one particular make-believe deity. Of course the people will embrace it! They're drowning and you're offering them a branch, albeit a fictional one.

And where, exactly, is it growing in Asia? Because I live in SE Asia and have traveled all over the region and can assure you that Catholicism is but a drop in the bucket here. Eastern religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, etc.) dominate, and a couple of countries are largely Muslim. The only country of significance where Catholicism is a force is the Philippines (thanks to 16th century Spanish conquerors), which is, unsurprisingly, another impoverished, poorly developed country. East Timor is another country with a majority Catholic population, but it's even worse-off than the Philippines, and is a very tiny country, occupying only part of an Indonesian island.

When your religion is growing only in third-world countries with low standards of living and even lower human development numbers, and shrinking in all the modern, industrialized, high-standard-of-living nations, you have to assume there is a reason for that. :)

Religion preys on the weak and impoverish offering hope to those who would otherwise have none.

commonsense

When you hug "God" you are hugging nothing except your own voice in your head.

Is it really possible to "embrace" atheism (how does one hug "no one") or agnosticism (not knowing)?

Agnosticism is frankly a higher form of reasoning than religious delusion. To say, "The existence of a supreme being is unknown and likely unknowable" is very logical. To say, "Of the thousands of gods that mankind has dreamed up over the centuries, only the one I happen to believe in (and only because I was born into it, most likely), though there is not a scrap of empirical evidence whatsoever to support my position, is the one true god," is arrogant and short-sighted in the extreme. It is the dictionary definition of delusion (a belief strongly held despite invalidating evidence).

As for atheism, I prefer to call it "rationalism." There is no need to ascribe legitimacy and credibility to "theists" by claiming NOT to be one. I don't believe leprechauns actually exist, either. Am I an aleprechaunist? No, I'm just a normal, sane person. A rationalist.

chad - anyone who know much about eastern religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, etc) knows these reglions to be fluid enough to be considered atheistic or agnostic.

That really has nothing at all to do with what I said, nor is it even accurate. They are religions, but not monotheistic religions, so sure, if you want to call them "atheist," you can do so, but it's not strictly true. Hinduism, for example, holds three gods as sacred. The Balinese version of Hinduism even adds a supreme god on top of the standard trio of Hindu gods. So they're really not atheist, are they?

that's exactly what my husband says to my "very religious" mom all the time!