The biggest problem I see with this whole story is that these murders appear to be routine calls. Murder is now just a routine call. What kind of world am I raising my kids in...

With any kind of Luck , you are not raising your kids in Chicago

My heart goes out to the family. Greg murder happens all over the U.S. not just Chicago.

Greg- ridiculous post. Murders happen all over the country.

My sympathy to the familiy and friends of this young man. I hope they find who did it and he serves life.

Sadly it is just one more gun crime in a city where guns are illegal. Only the criminals have guns there. And they use them all the time!!Since the government has disarmed everyone criminals have nothing to fear.

No matter what you folks say, Chicago is a dangerous city compared to many across this country. What is wrong with stating the facts anymore. I quickly checked via Google and found that Chicago had the second highest amount of murders in the nation in 2009, second only to New York City and more than 140 more murders than Los Angelos who has a population of more than 1-million, according to the census bureau. It's time to stop confronting those that make statements of fact. Pull your heads out of the sand.

Here is another example of Chicago's gun laws not working on MSNBC TODAY: Here is a overview.

Miranda pulled out a handgun and demanded money, police officials said. He then demanded the victim get out of the car.

At some point, the victim was able to grab control of the gun while Miranda's attention was diverted. The two men wrestled on the ground and during the fight, Miranda accidentally discharged his gun, shooting himself in the ankle, police said.

The victim was able to pin down Miranda until police arrived and later told officials he was a martial arts expert and ultimate fighting champion.

Here is the link

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/06/9246414-mugger-left-bloodied-after-attempt-on-mma-fighter

Until we as a society stand up and take our society back from the thugs, it won't get better. So sad.

AKRandy - you probably shouldnt have used an example where someone, unarmed, successfully detained a person carjacking them at gunpoint. it's kind of the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

ban handguns, they are only for police

Jessica, AK's point was loud and clear to those of us that can and do think for ourselves. Chicago experienced the second most deadly day of the year on November 5th. There were seven homicides that day. Six murdered with guns and one beaten to death. This in a city where it is illegal for the average citizen to own a weapon. Do you uinderstand now Jessica? The only folks in Chicago that have guns are the bad guys and they enjoy knowing that the rest of the population is unarmed.

Lanikai: You might have had some credibility in your comment, that is until you made the dumb comment 'the rest of the population is unarmed'. Even in communities with strong gun control laws, there are thousands of people who still own weapons, people YOU would call non-criminals. There are also quite a few loopholes to gun ownership, allowing a whole lot of people to legally own weapons. The facts are, very few 'legal' gunowners have thrawted armed criminals, you are more likely to either be killed by your own gun, have a child use an unsecured weapon resulting in tragedy (after all, what good does it do to own a gun if its not on your bedside or coffee tables - to help you, read sarcasm), or because of lack of real training the risk to harming bystanders is HUGE. The NRA Lobby wants you to think you can defuse a Virginia Tech or Tucson shooting situation, when what is more likely someone other than the shooter will get harmed in cross-fire or wild shoots, then there are the cops wondering which one is the bad guy - so the good guy is harmed or the bad guy gets away....These are all facts/arguments from LEO's around the country. So, you see, no credibility. The worlds largest propaganda lobby has nonsense slogans and facts, and real zealots who have a problem with reading and comprehension (well-regulated) having their pictures taken with Santa, my favorite is the toddler dressed in camo while his parents pose behind him with rifles. This has what to do with the celebration of the Lord's birht, how???? How does this relate to ownership in defense of others?

the Scottsdale (AZ) Gun Club....offer to patrons and their families to create Christmas cards posing with St. Nick and a cache of weapons.

"Santa's back with his bag of goodies," the promo on their Website reads. "Get your holiday picture with Santa and his machine guns!"

One image shows Santa in a chair with an $80,000 machine gun. Next to him is a man standing behind a boy holding an AR-15.

Cry me a river.

You have obviously never seen a dead person. When you die, all of your muscles relax; including those in your face. While it isn't a major change, it is often enough to make someone unrecognizable up close.

@cbawl...what a shame you seem unable to look past 'LEO programming'. Sgt. Butler reported to the scene in work mode. He approached the vehicle in professional fashion. Sir - you can take every single penny you have and bet it on the fact that the very last person, Sgt. Butler would expect to see was the face of his own son. A dead body looks nothing like breathing person - facial muscles relax to an amazing degree instantly. It was dark - this yong man was of dark skin. When Sgt Butler fully realized this was his son - those emotions attached to his being this young man's father took over and he immediately yielded to his supervisor.

cbawl - given all the horrendous circumstances - his son (step-son is a legal term only as he had raised this boy) would not have been more pleased to know his father had found him first.

As for your statement - "We need them to return to being there for We The People." - it starts with you. My opinion only - your entry pretty much mucked that up... Try again?

PJ, I feel for the officers family, but I agree with your statement. If this man did not recognise his own step son OR the car, it does not say a lot about police training. The ability to spot details should be important. They have to look past the obvious;gun, knife, bullet wound, into the faces of victims and potential perpetrators. Maybe that is why there are still children being shot while holding toys or sticks.

Sgt. Butler reported to the scene in work mode. He approached the vehicle in professional fashion.

If responding to a murder scene in "work mode" mean you can't tell when your own SON is in the car.... damn. To me, there's nothing professional about that. My mind instantly went to "Keystone Kops".

If others want to lay praise on a police officer who couldn't recognize his own son... have at it. I'm not ashamed to admit I think it's pathetic.

Texana Deb - clearly from Texas - not a clue about reality. And Harold - shame on you. As an earlier post said, a person's facial features change when they die and can be hard to recognize. Plus, I have no idea of how much of his face was covered in blood. Have a little common sense.

I've seen plenty of dead people Mr Goin. Their facial features didn't change to the point where I couldn't recognize them. Hard to recognize? Your own son? And you tell me to have common sense? Please.

If it were my son, I would have recognized the car. Before I even saw his face, I would have recognized his coat as I approached the car. Before I even had my flashlight out, my worst fears that it might be my son would be creeping up on me.

Hard to recognize my azz....

I sympathize with the guy... he lost his son. But I'm not willing to call him "professional".

Harold - may help if you read the full story in the link above - was in the middle of the night - Sgt Butler, a 17 year veteran, was reporting to 'shots fired' - so he was already on his guard - he was not the only officer on the scene - he shined the light from 2ft away - the young man is dark skinned - the story doesn't say what direction the young man was facing, slumped over, condition etc. It was only seconds before he turned and realized it was his son and went into shock himself - tho not before he called out to a supervisor on scene - am sure you'll knock his professionalism for that too.

Wow Harold - everybody with this 'what do you mean he didn't recognize his own son' - cut some slack. Only hope will be that not one of you is ever in the same situation - then you'll know Sgt Butler's feelings.

Sure they happen all across the US but to deny that murders in Chicago happen WAY more often means your a crackhead living in Chicago.

PJ... I read the whole story. I didn't miss anything. It was the middle of the night IN CHICAGO. There are plenty of street lights. If it were my son "slumped over", I would have recognized the car and the clothes he was wearing. Dark skinned at night HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (African Americans don't have problems recognizing their children in the dark).

Again... you wanna heap praise on this guy... have at it. I don't fault you for being compassionate. I feel bad for the guy, I really do. But I'm also flabbergasted at how cavalier he approached this situation... The guy couldn't even recognize his own son! That's pathetic.

Must be smooth to be perfect, have all the answers, know exactly what you would do and be judgmental - Harold of the Rocks, your moniker says it all.

Harold, seriously, you missed the POINT!

It was stated in the article that a bystander recongnized the victim as the boyfriend of her daughter but the cop responding to the scene looking at him close up didn't even recognize his own son? That's just another sign of cops becoming so jaded they have lost their humanity

W Groin

You are living in a dream world of video games obviously. I have seen dead people. My sister in law was murdered and my husband and I had to identify her. You CAN identify your own family.

It doesn't say anywhere in this story that the kid was driving his own car or that the woman screaming about her sister's boyfriend was a bystander.

Be very careful about criticizing someone based on information that you yourself have inferred, not actually read.

I'm not saying those things are true or not - and neither can you, because it doesn't say either way in this article.

Here is some more possible information:

It says there were 4 other people in the car. One was a baby, meaning 3 others were not. One of these people could have been the girlfriend's sister. Alternatively, one could have been the girlfriend, who called her sister to come to the scene between the shooting and the cops arriving.

It says the car looked "vaguely familiar" - it doesn't eventually say it was the son's car. It could have been his girlfriend's that he was driving. Even if it was his, white is the most popular car color in the US and Chevy is the second most popular car brand - so how many white Chevies do you think a cop comes across in a day? If it has no other distinct markings, it would look just like any other white Chevy.

As to not recognizing the kid's clothes? Well, when I was away at college I was gone for months at a time and occasionally acquired new clothes while I was gone. My parents couldn't be guaranteed to recognize what I was wearing - especially if I'd been at a friend's house the night before (he had a girlfriend) or if they'd left for work before I got up or dressed.

Yes, it's sad that the guy didn't recognize his step-son right away. But there are explanations for that too - it's true that dead bodies don't look a whole lot like alive bodies. He could also be so used to finding dead bodies that he doesn't look that closely. But he could also have developed a coping mechanism to dealing with all that death by mentally disassociating - if you were a cop in an area with a high homicide rate and approached every crime scene with your heart open, you would go very crazy very fast due to all the horrible things you see. Also, depending on his rank and position, he could also be used to his job being only to identify that there is a dead body then secure the area and call in someone else to work the scene - he may not be allowed by regulation to get that close.

Again, not saying any of those things are true or not - but neither can you. So be careful what you accuse people of when you don't have the facts.

It has nothing to do with police training, and everything to do with context. I think everyone in the world has had that moment when you see someone you know in a place you don't expect to see them, and for a minute you don't recognize the person because they are out of context. He was not expecting to see his son dead in that car, therefore, it didn't immediately register that it was his son. Also, we're not talking about a homicide detective coming to a scene that has already been secured specifically to ID a victim. He was probably less concerned with the person who had been shot than the person who might still be out there and could shoot him and his fellow officers. Or, he could have recognized him right away, and gone into shock. None of these things would have made him a bad police officer.

But, you know, there always has to be that handful of jerks on the internet who need to criticize the victims of horrible situations for not doing everything the way they would have wanted them to. The good news is, those types of people rarely survive in survival situations, so come the apocalypse we'll be rid of the cocky know-it-alls within like two weeks.

Harold - you seem to think you have all the answers. However, as skate_08 pointed out, the article says NOTHING about the son being in his own car. It might have been his girlfriend's car, or another friends car. Also, not recognizing the clothes he is wearing? Are you really serious?? The kid was home on break from college. I do not believe that the father would know EVERY piece of clothing his son owns. The kid was 20, I am sure that he had been dressing himself for years, so there is no reason to believe that the father would know what he was wearing that night.

When he arrived at the scene, it was night, he was probably just confirming with a glance that victim was dead and making sure that the scene was secure. I do not fault him. As others have said, the muscles relax in a person's face when they are dead. If the boy was turned away or slumped over, you might not recognize someone, especially when you do not expect to see your child as the victim in a shooting. It also depends on where the gunshot wound was and the amount of damage/blood on the face.

My condolences to the family for their loss.

I lived in Chicago as a child. As a teenager, I lived in one of Chicago's Western suburbs where we didn't even lock our doors. Then I lived for more than 20 years in San Francisco. I never felt in danger, although I also never walked through a dark alley at night, either. In my late 40s, I moved back to Chicago (the South Side), joined a gym, and literally had to fight. (The problem is being litigated right now, partly to keep it from turning into a street fight.) We African Americans need to wake up. We are in denial. We have a violence problem. Many of our young people are antisocial. Many of the older ones aren't much better. Our community has no rules; it is the Wild West, and I think that's partly because the justice system is inadequate at dealing with our problems. Yes, violence occurs in other places and among other people, too, but not like it does among us. We are a race of bullies! Someone needs to say it. Let it start a dialogue.

Nor enough brains

Another brilliant cut and paste response from chuckler.....

You're right there's so many less mur der s in Mexico where the citizens are denied that right.

Citizens don't own guns, Cartels do and where do they get them?

Cartels purchase their firearms from the US BATFE, likely at a quantity discount. They also obtain many, especially 'real' military fully automatic versions from Central American countries or international artms sellers.

Or are one of those who believe you can easily buy machine guns and submachine guns at American gun shows or gun stores without any ID or background checks?

Actually, Eric Holder has the guns personally shipped down to Mexico.

LOLOL guess you don't get to FL much chuckler - it's death by machete down here. Plenty of deaths by kitchen knife as well.

"Four others, including a baby, were in the car at the time". Perhaps they were out of the car by the time police arrived on the scene?? (sarcasm) Hello? I'm sure this man "knew" all of his stepsons friends, and should have "recognized the one yelling this" Really?? How does one even come up with such a comment? Oh...it's all a plot of some type!

no wonder you are a muppett

Thank you both for your helpful insightful replies. You are clearly not only smarter than me, but better people, as you yourself already believe.

A friend of mine died instantly in a car accident and his brother was the cop to work the wreck. His mother drove by and stopped and he had to lie to her and tell her that it wasn't her son. Sad.

Looking for work!

Considering that it was a Holiday weekend maybe they were spending time with friends/family and just on they're way home. There is no crime in having your children out after midnight. As a mother of 3 this happens to me often during the holidays. You don't know the circumstances so who are you to judge?

drug deal What Else

People can be victims of random acts of violence or be at the wrong place at the wrong time too... not everyone is a criminal.

This is a no brainer. It was the holiday weekend. Ofcourse people are traveling during that time at all hours of the day and night. Americans travel during the holidays. I drive from WA to California, a 12 hours trip. Yes, it goes past midnight. What are we supposed to do in your "Perfect world" scenario.

I referred to "rouge" in a conversation with my wife and aunt recently. They laughed me out of the room. Apparently they don't even make "rouge" any more.

Rogues, however, are still plentiful.

Honestly, would you immediately recognize your child with a giant powder burnt hole in the side of their head and bloodied face turned at an awkward angle in a location you didn't expect them to be? It would take most of us more than a cursory glance.

Heather, Way to dramatise. He was shot in the shoulder according to the article. there was no"giant powder burnt hole in the side of their head and bloodied face turned at an awkward angle..."

I happened on a car wreck involving my own daughter one time. She was not supposed to be in that location. But at least I had the sense to recognise the car as belonging to my daughter's friends father and could identify my daughter when I saw her. And I'M not a COP.

Shot in shoulder

Seriously, this is what your take away is??

"Wow, I can't believe he didn't recognize his own kid!" Clearly, you MISSED the point of the article!

Damn!

Seeing as the gist of the whole article revolves around how he didn't recognize his stepson at first, it's pretty complex to get much else out of the article at first read.

No use trying to explain!

I agree. It's pretty hard to teach you.

Or I guess I could just jump to all kinds of stereotypical conclusions:

1. Chicago therefore high crime is expected

2. The victim is African American, what else would anyone expect as obviously he cop wasn't stunned

3. Disinterested cop who doesn't even humanize looking at victims because he's become so used to it

Or would you prefer I skip those and feel more pity for him being a cop and finding his kid shot than I would for someone else faced with the same experience?

There is - or should be - NO POINT to a news article. The "point" is to relate the facts. Any "point" is drawn by the individual reader, Jo-An. And, while there are other things that can be taken away from this particular story, there's no use trying to explain to you, apparently, that other people found it rather significant that this guy didn't recognize the boy he had been a father to for 12 years.

Is Miker the real Dr. Sheldon Cooper? ;)

@Sparklystar: Are you suggesting that Jo-An was being ironic? Because I don't think she was. And, unlike the character to whom you refer, I have a pretty good grasp on irony, sarcasm, and humor in general.

@cbawl...perhaps you've lost your own soul?? Sgt. Butler reported to the scene in work mode. He approached the vehicle in professional fashion. Sir - you can take every single penny you have and bet it on the fact that the very last person, Sgt. Butler would expect to see was the face of his own son. A dead body looks nothing like breathing person - facial muscles relax to an amazing degree instantly. It was dark - this yong man was of dark skin. When Sgt Butler fully realized this was his son - those emotions attached to his being this young man's father took over and he immediately yielded to his supervisor.

Try again?

Why try again? You'll just copy & paste the same response you posted earlier. . .

Oh Miker - evidently, you don't read or check all the details of a post/story. Indeed, I did cut and paste the few details of the story as reported and added to that.

Oh, PJ - evidently you don't think I noticed that you've cut and pasted virtually the entire comment above at least 3 times, verbatim or very nearly so. Repeating it doesn't lend it any extra credibility. In fact, it tends to have exactly the opposite effect.

While I see your point Miker, I was transparent in my response to you that yes, I did cut and paste most of my message pertaining to the facts as reported - and while it may not seem original to you - when people make/ask the same comment/question over and over i.e. how did this guy not recognize his own son - it really makes no sense to reinvent the wheel with various combinations of the same wording/message. As far as extra credibility - I don't seek any - in fact, in this particular thread, I felt strongly that it tended to make clear my conviction to my message - which is exactly what I wish.

Fair enough. All I can say in response is that when I see a question/issue that I've addressed previously - within a few pages of each other - I don't see the point in jumping in again. Clearly the subsequent commenter isn't reading the previous comments, so there's little reason to presume they'll read your or my response to them.

WOW!

lol. Dont worry Jo-An, he cuts and pastes the same statement on every thread he posts, regardless of the topic. I think his tinfoil hat fell off.

Thank you AbleKane, I hope he finds his hat soon! LOL!

You can take every single penny you have and bet it on the fact that the very last person, Sgt. Butler would expect to see was the face of his own son. A dead body looks nothing like breathing person - facial muscles relax to an amazing degree instantly. It was dark - this young man was of dark skin. When Sgt Butler fully realized this was his son - those emotions attached to his being this young man's father took over and he immediately yielded to his supervisor.

kapekodder Teach, I don't think A$$hole is the correct spelling of a word.