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Subscribe to RSSLos Angeles police officers cleared out the Occupy LA encampment early Tuesday morning. KNBC-TV reports.
After a long night for police and protesters, Occupy encampments in Los Angeles and Philadelphia were empty Wednesday morning. The cities were dealing with the aftermath of the two-month occupations — legal battles and park clean-up. And though the mass roundup in Los Angeles remained largely nonviolent, it sparked debate over whether jail officials were being unnecessarily punitive.
The Los Angeles police worked throughout the night to process the 292 people arrested, all but two of whom who were booked for refusing to leave City Hall and nearby intersections after the city declared those to be unlawful assemblies. Bail for the misdemeanor charges was set at $5,000 each.
Masked sanitation workers hauled away 25 tons of debris from the lawns around Los Angeles City Hall after police raided the protesters' camp in the middle of the night and arrested more than 300 people.
In Philadelphia, dozens of police patrolled a plaza outside City Hall after sweeping it of demonstrators and arresting 50.
Mass arrest
Because of the large number of arrests in Los Angeles, protesters were taken to three different jail facilities for booking, and spokesmen who were reached said they did not know how many remained in custody at 2 p.m. PST.
Hacking groups launch 'Operation Robin Hood'
A bail bondsman in Los Angeles said that he had received three calls from family members on behalf of protesters, but that he couldn’t help until they were completely processed. He said that could take up to 24 hours.
“We are not able to move forward on these bonds is because they are still processing people in,” said Greg Rynerson, an owner of Rynerson’s Bail Bonds. The procedures — getting fingerprinted, photographed, run through background checks — normally take one to six hours after arrest, he said.
“But when you have this kind of volume, I imagine the jail staff is completely overwhelmed,” he said.
By accounts from both sides, the police operation in Los Angeles remained largely peaceful. There was one arrest for interfering with a law enforcement officer and one for battery on a police officer, according to LAPD public information officer Andrew Smith.
“The people who were arrested pretty much were volunteers to be arrested — as they have at other rallies,” Smith said.
At a news conference Wednesday morning, Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck proclaimed his officers' operation a success.
Lucy Nicholson / Reuters
A Los Angeles police officer walks through the vacated site of Occupy LA outside City Hall on Wednesday. Demonstrators were camped here for two months to protest economic inequality and financial system excesses.
"The world was watching… and what the world saw was an elegant operational plan that was brilliantly executed by America's finest police force," Beck said.
NBC Los Angeles reported that the final holdouts at the encampment — a dog and three people in a tree house — were removed by officers using a Bomb Assault Tactical Control Assessment Tool — basically a souped-up forklift.
The operation might help Los Angeles police shed their bad reputation for abuse.
“On Los Angeles — it is no longer the most violent police force in America,” said attorney Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a non-profit human rights litigation organization in New York.The National Lawyers Guild, which has been supporting the Occupy protesters, condemned the arrests, peaceful or not.
LA police: 'Brilliantly executed' raid on Occupy camp
“The Los Angeles Police Department is deliberately refusing to release anyone arrested in the Occupy raids with a notice to appear,” said Carol Sobel, NLG board member. “The city is holding them in jail on $5,000 bail until they can be arraigned by a judge, which can take up to 48 hours. This punishes people for exercising their First Amendment rights.”
Protesters posting on the Occupy Los Angeles website disagreed about whether the police action was peaceful. Participants were urging protesters to send in raw video footage they collected to document alleged abuses.
There have been no formal complaints about police treatment in the action, said Bruce Borihanh, an LAPD spokesman.
Looking ahead, the city of Los Angeles was dusting off a landscaping plan for the park around city hall, timely grounds work that will effectively prevent people from using it, according to a senior city hall staffer who said was not authorized as a spokesperson.
What’s next for occupiers?
Protesters across the nation were pondering how to proceed with the movement's “occupation” phase ending.
In the past few weeks, police broke up encampments in other cities as Portland, Ore., Oakland, Calif., and New York, where the sit-down protests against social inequality and corporate excesses began in mid-September, The Associated Press reported.
Demonstrators are still at it in places like Boston and Washington, which each had encampments of about 100 tents Wednesday. Dozens of protesters are fighting eviction from a community college campus in Seattle.
Police clear Los Angeles and Philadelphia encampments. NBC's Chris Clackum reports.
The camps may bloom again in the spring, organizers told the AP, and next summer could bring huge demonstrations at the Republican and Democratic presidential nominating conventions, when the whole world is watching. But for now they are promoting dozens of smaller actions, such as picketing the president in New York and staging sit-ins at homes marked for foreclosure.
"We intend to use this for what it is — basically six months to get our feet underneath us, to get strong," said Phil Striegel, a community activist in San Francisco.
Protesters elsewhere also refuse to concede defeat.
Meet Nashville's square-dancing Occupiers
In New York City on Wednesday evening, groups of marchers threaded their way through traffic to demonstrate at the Sheraton Hotel, where President Barack Obama was due to speak. They included a group of "peace grannies," people playing drums and other instruments, and others carrying American flags and Occupy signs.
Protesters in Philadelphia planned a march from the city's well-to-do Rittenhouse Square to police headquarters Wednesday afternoon and also called for a "victory march" for Friday or Saturday, the AP reported.
"Occupy Philly is alive and well," said Katonya Mosley, a member of the group's legal collective. She said members have been communicating via list serves, text messages and email and planned to continue meeting in cafes and other spaces. Local groups have also offered to donate space for the protesters to continue meeting, Mosley said.
While one faction received a permit for a scaled-down protest across the street, she said, Occupy Philadelphia as a whole hasn't decided whether to go that route. The city has said any new permit would include a ban on camping.
In St. Louis, protesters whose camp was broken up by police on Nov. 12 planned to march to the Federal Reserve Bank office on Thursday. John Mills, a technical writer, called the dissolution of the camp a minor setback.
"It's dampened some spirits, but I think people are just as passionate, just as excited and just as ready for change as they were before," Mills said.
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With millions of people looking at years of no job prospects!, the budget deficit around 1.28 trillion dollars, and that interest growing every hour, something needs to be done that does not take ten years, or two or three years, time is running out something needs to be done now!
Some might say no more stimulus, but stimulus is what is needed to get the country back on track, and the budget deficit under control! also taxes needs to be raised, namely the Bush tax this needs to be repealed for everyone in order to get things moving, when things are back on track they could reform the tax system, broaden the base, lower corporate taxes, cut spending pay down the debt etc., but right now people need to have income to live.
one way to do this is to give these unemployed people five or six hundred dollars per week for two years tax free! and take around 28% from the top and give that not to be paid back to all the states as most needed to get state and city workers, teachers, police firemen, city workers etc. working at full capacity, this will create demand in the markets, and stabilise the economy, and with this 28% plus their regular money they take in it will help the jobs markets and small and big business!.
The 5 or 6 hundred dollars minus 28% would go directly to the 17 or so millions of people who will spend this money to live , stimulating demand in the markets, it will also help lift the real estate markets to this would be around 6 billion dollars per week for two years going into the economy, and it will be as if everyone was working zero unemployment w/o the taxes, allow these people to find jobs and work while they collect this money, and they will pay taxes on the money they earn , this will help the economy, withhold all other assistance from them for three years , and if they need help after that they can apply for it with strict guidelines possible eliminating some waste and fraud.
The money the gov., and states will pay to help these people with food stamps, housing, and unemployment dollars could be applied to help fund this plan, the bush tax cut when repealed will bring in more than enough to pay for this in the next five years, the federal gov. and the states could cut spending, and eliminate waste much better, with the unemployment problem out of the way for two years, they could easily pay the budget deficit off in that time without derailing the recovery, this would save them billions of dollars n interest that they are paying out on this deficit now.
If the gov. would start the infrastructure projects that are direly needed as they implement this plan it will create work for these people who want to work, some of them could, go to school, the economy would grow, and become stable, and the legislator's could work on other important things like immigration, trade, etc. I hope someone can see how this plan could help the problem we are having with jobs, deficits, and the recovery;
Hey, Dale. I'll willingly contribute to the helpless. To hell with the clueless.
Got a degree in creative writing with a minor in music appreciation and thousands in student loan debt? Tough S--t! You can't get a job now or anytime in the near future, UNLESS...
the Administration creates some artificial program to hire worthless dorks who think they're above doing regular (common) labor. Oh wait! We've got illegal immigrants to do that! My bad...
U.S. trade is broken. The water runs out of our pail through a great big hole in the bottom filling up foreign buckets. No stimulus to date since NAFTA has resulted in any permanent jobs in the U.S.. You need to wake up.
Help Fix America First - http://helpfixamericafirst.blogspot.com
It is obvious that you did not get a degree in math or economics. To distribute that much money with no backing behind it would cause tragically high inflation of the currency. The cost of all goods would go sky high. It would be like stealing from anyone on a low or fixed income or anyone with a small savings.
Now this is the bailout that we need.
Looks like Dale has it all figured out for us. It's so simple, it's sheer genius!! Hey, why don't we ALL quit our jobs. The government can just print up a bunch of cash and give us $1000... no wait!... $10,000 a week (tax free, of course)!! Then we can ALL sit around for months without bathing and bang on drums and smoke weed and... and... WOW! THIS WILL BE GREAT! That ought to stimulate the HELL out of the economy! I for one know what I'm spending MY tax free money on. RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS!!
Hey Dale,
Let me do the math for you. And I will use an extremely conservative unemployment number (10 mil)
10,000,000 unemployed x $500/week x 52 weeks x 2 years.
That comes out to $520,000,000,000 over 2 years. I don't know about you, but something tells me that we are not going to pay down public debt by adding that kind of spending. Not to mention when people with low paying jobs hear about free money for not working, they will quit and that number will easily double.
What needs to happen is we need to weed out costly, overlapping government spending that our congressmen/senate have created. Stimulus' did not work as we have all seen in the last year. They may work for a few months, but that stimulus given is borrowed money that will come back and haunt future generations.
Well Dale is obviously a pedophile. Lock him up.
The Fed Reserve loaned banks & corporations over $1 trillion dollars no interest loans on top of what banks got as a bailout. Look how grateful they were for rescue. They pissed all over the country and took jobs to China.
The bailout should have gone to the American people in terms of cash, debt forgiveness, or both. Do you know how much money they lose and spend in the Mideast? Why is it okay to put the Mideast on the dole but not your own citizens?
"Occupiers" should get off their ass in these town parks and get involved with local political politics if they truly want to make a difference. Go voice your opinion with your elected officials and be heard by joining your local organization. The only way to change the existing government is to hold your elected official accountable. These people are wasting so much energy on ineffective methods. I'm curious to know how many are registered to vote, and /or if they voted in the last presidential election,or their state elections?
The flaw in the call for infrastructure stimulus is; how many out of work clercks are bricklayers? How many unemployed teachers are heavy equipment operators?How many retail store former employees are cement finishers, carpenters, electricians, or plumbers? The only people benefiting from the President's stimulus plan are the unions. Sure, a few might get hired as laborers, or flag people, at $8.00 an hour. Will that help them keep their $1100.00 mortgage and food on the table? The congress needs to do away with the "prevailing wage" portion of their infrastructure jobs, and let the market determine the wages. if you offer $8.00 an hour, and no one comes, then $9.00 or 410.. will have to be offered, or more, thill the jobs are filled. Paying untrained labor 19.00 an hour is just plain stupid. Takes twice as many to do half the work.
Here's a novel way to cut spending, and make jobs. Close all our bases in Japan, and germany to start with. Bring the troops home, and put them on our borders. Now we have american making food, clothes and supplies for our troops in country. If we own the land the bases are on, sell it. if we lease, sublet till the lease expires. rengotiate our support of the united nations. The USA pays 22 % of the UN budget, yet only has one vote, along with 192 other countries. Only 6 have veto power.
We pay 47% duty on anything made in America, and imported into China. China pays 2% duty on goods made in China, and imported into the USA. Tit for tat. Raise the duty on China to 47%. Watch jobs start to come back to the USA. Raise or lower the duty on all other countries, so all are equal to what we pay. Now we are getting back to work. Yeah, some countries will whine, but we need to take care of America first. Hell, elect me president, and in 4 years I can have the mess cleared up, and the debt being reduced.
This entire plan would cost a little over one trillion dollars, this would cover the costs for the infrastructure the bush tax would bring in around two trillion dollars over five years that alone would fund the plan and have money left to pay on the deficit, the demand in the markets would start to generate billions in tax revenues, the interest saved when the deficit was paid off would be in the billions, when manufacturing went up it would generate more money, the savings on unemployment, and food stamps over two years would be in the billions, as they would be able to cut more waste and spending, the more debt they could eliminate the more they would save on interest, in the end the plan would pay for itself, and leave the country in a much better condition financially!!!
JR; you are wrong about inflation!!!
I can't decide if Dale actually believes his nonsense or if he is just the best troll on this article.
To put his brilliant suggestion into perspective, $600/week is approximately $40k/year after taxes (I realize most of you can do simple math, but clearly Dale is mathamatically challenged)
However, Kyleortonsarm is onto something. Dale would use his money for a white panel van and lots of candy...
Dale and Old Man both have brilliant ideas. I hope both of you go talk to your congressman. The only way to make changes is through them. So much wasted time talking on internet with no action, go make it happen
Did the Philadelphia, LA Protesters think they were going to be fed cookies and milk, before being arrested?
Protest; fight the Police, means no employment in the future. Or maybe this IS their employment.
They should set up a Corporation. Or is that ACORN again?
That is exactly what President Obama and the Democrats want to pass the budget bill; and there is no such a perfect bill. And the stimulus bill can help the states and federal create jobs and contracts to save the small business and other companies to which they can hire people and the GDP is going to rise again; with the rising of the GDP, our national economy is still down...
And the GOPers still want to increase the defense budget when our defense budget is six times more than the China which is lined up the number 2 seat of the world military expense.
So Occupy's off the streets? Now the real work can begin.
oldman young eyes:
You'd have to get elected dictator in order to pass what you want. Your logic is too logical for this current system. They'd never vote for anything you wanted in congress. And every corporation would eat you alive. But you would have my vote.
I am very confused. For years, the homeless bums lived in these parks and the police did nothing. But if a protest group moves into the park - then the police come out in full battle dress and all hell breaks loose.
Why are protesters so much worse than the thousands of homeless that normally live there? It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the fact that homeless are not 'threatening' the rich, while the protesters are directly protesting about the rich? Gee - I wish I were rich enough to command the police to remove irritants among the riff-raff...
Plugging-in your numbers...$40,000 for 2 yrs = $80,000 X 10 million unemployed = $800 billion. Dale stated that his plan would cost approximately $1 trillion. Where do you see the mathematics problem?
The inflationary problem mentioned earlier by Al-337*** has no basis. Dale's solution is not paid for by money created or through borrowing, as he it mentioned, could be paid for easily by ending the Bush tax cuts and the expansion of tax revenues from increased employment and economic growth.
oldman young eyes's complaint that:
..doesn't make sense either . The jobs Dale is talking about aren't limited to the trades. All sorts of skills are required to run projects, both in private business and by public works.
The point overall is that wealth is not generated simply by money available, it is generated when money moves in the course of human energy utilized and work being done.
"Looking ahead, the city of Los Angeles was dusting off a landscaping plan for the park around city hall, timely grounds work that will effectively prevent people from using it, according to a senior city hall staffer who said was not authorized as a spokesperson."
Whaddya know, I was wrong. Something positive DID come out of the Occupy protests. LA is pushing through some landscaping plans that had previously been stalled. That's WAY more than I was expecting. Congrats to all Occupy protesters everywhere.
I can see the inflation point, but this could easily be fixed if government price caps were implemented at the same time. Of course most of us have apparently been brainwashed into believing that anything that costs the moneygrubbers a dime is unamerican and obviously part of the communist/socialist conspiracy to take over the U.S. Personally I think price caps are long over due mainly on things like gas and food and also on mortgage payments and interest charged on loans, insurance too. Yes, this will cost people at the top money, but it is there turn in the barrel for a change and it is coming one way or the other. I think it would be better for everybody if the moneygrubbers let it happen because then the changes will be gradual and within reason. If the changes come by force after a long and drawn out struggle the changes will be extreme and likely go too far. Remember red october came about because so few had so much while so many had so little and when the little people took over, communism was the result. I don't think most of us want to live in a communist police state but the rightwingers have got to realize that communism and socialism are not the same thing and quit spitting the word socialist out like it's such an evil diabolical thing. There is a huge difference between a society(which we ALREADY live in) and a commune. Likewise the leftys need to drop the idealism as well, please stop mixing enviromental and racial issues with what is clearly a financial and social issue, gun control, affirmative action, abortion, and immigration have nothing to do with wall street and the financial aristocracy.
culheath
one trillion dollars for two years?
Fine lets give the people what they gave the banks.. seven trillion dollars..So that's fourteen years worth of recovery.
Another clueless right wing economist
kyleortonsarm, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Re: dale (post #1)
I will play Devil's advocate and reply that the idea of stripping the jobs, wealth and independence of masses of the people by unemployment and underemployment is a continuation of a plan laid in place since the 1980's.
The ruthlessness displayed by having a unbridled Capitalistic society without any boundaries on the impact on the social welfare of the nation is the real culprit. We all pay a price when the financial safeguards that protect the stability of the nation are corrupted for the benefit of the few.
We are being lulled into serfdom by the large financial and corporate entities who are exercising an unprecedented amount of political and financial power to reshape the world for their benefit only.
In order to change this situation you would need mass awareness of the majority of the people combined with a willingness to abandon their sense of loyalty to a system that is slowly grinding away their rights.
The real solution lies in bringing back the American spirit of having the best paid workers who build the finest products. Set up free trade and technology schools for every person who wants to learn an in demand trade while paying them a livable wage. Stop importing inferior and dangerous goods from overseas that threaten not only the economic health of the nation but also its' citizens.
Great idea, give me 5 or 6 hundred bucks aweek tax free for two years maybe then I could quit my job and sit around in a park smoke pot and pretend I'm changing the world
Well we gave bankers Billions and they handed out mega bonuses for screw#%$@ the people so whats the difference???
Most of the TARP money has been paid back, with interest.
Its the GM/Union bailout that was really, really Wrong. GM hasn't paid it all back and probably never will.
Rick, if you don't like that we did it for bankers, why would you think it would be okay for us to do it with other people?
Rick, we're all pretty tired of the same stale old crap about the bankers and the rich and the 1%....yadda yadda yadda, and we're sure as hell tired of the ad nauseum media coverage of the occupy-losers. So, why don't both of you do us a big favor and give it a rest.
And yet, Spider, here you are. Reading the media coverage of the Occupy movement. If you want them to go away so badly, just start ignoring them. It won't work, but you will feel alot better :-)
You didn't 'give' the money to the rich, Rick... Whether you want to believe it or not, many of them actually earned it. Plenty of entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors, even artists and athletes got theirs fairly and with no subterfuge.
That's part of the problem with the whiners out there. They blame anybody who happens to not be suffering.
Stop screaming and yelling and do what you can to fairly become a member of the 1%. Pay your stupid taxes, buy your stupid luxuries, give it away, or sit on the money and keep your mouth shut.
Nobody ever got anywhere substituting complaining for work. Ambition and sweat created this nation (and the open markets upon which it depends), and nothing else will ever save it.
That's where the movement now needs to move towards a different positive theme, "Rebuild America and Americans". Or something. The 99% thing sounds like jellousy-- it got its point across, now start moving toward solutions. And put candidates out there to vote for.
About damn time they cleared them out. Too bad they didn't do this sooner. What a bunch of idiots
selfmade13- I agree, for a little over 10 years I have owned my own business. Within the last 5 months have started another one. I got tired of working for other people who paid crappy wages while we busted our butts to make them more money. Instead of complaining, I learned from them, like going to school, then took what I learned and became a competitor of theirs. I am in the construction trades and as long as there are homes, people need work done to fix and repair their homes. I have never borrowed a penny from a bank, Gov. or anyone else. I busted my butt to earn some money to get started and bought the tools I did not have as I was able to afford them. Yes, a rough and slow way to start, but with determination and hard work I have succeeded and I am still succeeding to this day. Selfmade13 has a very good point, if you want to make a difference in your life, get off your butt, quit complaining about what you don't have,what everyone else does have and work to make your life better!
Got to laugh at these self proclaimed right wing economists.
With all their wisdom it must have been frustrating for Them warning
everyone that the economy was about to collapse and still no one listened.
That’s right that never happened.
Oh, you're right. No one EVER tried to tell Congress that there was something TERRIBLY fishy with Freddie and Fannie...Oh yeah, it DID happen. And Comrades Frank and Waters said NOOOO, Freddie and Fannie are just PEACHY...(most) Liberals are idiots ...My father had an 8th grade education. He saved and saved and saved (while teaching himself to read), working menial second jobs, until he had enough money to out a 2nd floor on our modest two bedroom one bathroom house. It took a few years and tons of hard work, but we did it (My brothers and I pitched in, doing everything from cleaning, painting, framing, hanging siding, etc). No handouts, no expectation that it was going to be done overnight , or that it was going to be handed to us. I'm SICK of hearing the angst of today's youth, railing over their lot in life, their hatred of 'evil corporations', while texting away on their i-phones, surfing the net on laptops (all made, of course, by those same 'evil corporations'). Here's an idea. Get out of your parent's basements, get a job (ANY kind of job), TWO jobs if you have to, and join the rest of the REAL 99% attempting to actually BECOME one of the 1%...
So once again punish those that made the right decisions in life about the importance of an education, postponing marriage and children until you can AFFORD it, postponing buying a house until you have an adequate down payment and buying a house you can realistically afford on your present salary not some pie in the sky salary you will never achieve. Living within your means, investing for the future and continuing your education to remain relevant in the workforce so you not only can keep your job but also progress.
You want these folks that made the sacrifcies, made the right decisions to shell out their hard earned money that THEY earned, that THEY pay taxes on, that THEY invested and took the risks with to support the idle poor, the lazy, the stupid, the never do wells of our society that do noting, contribute nothing, that pop out children, vover indulge in alcohol and drugs and then seek another GVT handout and blame everyone esle for their failures in life.
No I think not - I earned mine - time for you and the rest of the losers in our society to start pulling your weight and stop free loading off the state, local and Federal government.
Excuse me, but there are plenty of people that did get a degree, live within their means, postponed buying a house, etc, and guess what? Yup, still unemployed, still lost a roof over their head, still up to their eyeballs in debt, and not from getting liberal art degrees, either. The problem is that people decide that they "deserve" a 10 million dollar bonus, on the backs of workers they decided to fire, and that investors "deserve" 200-300 fold off their investment on the backs of the workers who make just enough to live paycheck to paycheck.
If things don't change, this country is going to look like Rio. Luxury housing, surrounded by shanty towns, with little to no middle class.
And some of those who are unemployed spend more than 40 hours a week looking for a job while taking seminars to increase their marketability, following up every lead, networking as much as possible, being willing to accept lower positions-even entry-level if necessary, looking at cross industry work, being willing to move across country, and taking part time work or contract work if that's all there is. So they don't have time to protest being unemployed.
Note that I'm not blaming everyone for being unemployed or for their financial difficulties-the situation varies from person to person. I'm just speaking of certain people who are unemployed and looking for work who simply don't have time to protest.
Stephace - Just keep repeating President Obama's wealth redistribution creed, "All corporations are bad, all CEO's are bad, all investors are bad, all profits are bad". If you have a 401K you are a investor! You want it to grow you, you want profit. If you never took advantage of your companies 401K you are financially iignorant or unemployable.
Uh....Steph...if you lived within your means, how come you are 'up to your eyeballs' in all this debt you speak of?
Ternan, it would be nice if it were truly that simple, but the world is a different place and you can't judge them based on what you did or did not do 50 years ago.
How do you know if they have quit school, etc?You are making it up
It's always easy to judge others, especially if you can hide behind a keyboard.
Dude.....do you realize that some of us were earning a good living in the home building industry? We made good decisions just like you. We've watched our careers and dreams just crumble. I'm over 50 years old. Do you think it's gonna be easy to start a whole new career and build it all up again? You need to consider the big picture before you go off on people! Now.....go stand in front of the mirror and ask yourself if you like what you see.
I agree with your statement "Ternan", however what is it that we do with the 10 million+ people? If I follow your thinking about this, it is that you don't care what happens to them. Are you willing to put into writing that if they were to become too much trouble lets kill them? If not, then a solution needs to be presented that makes sense. It's time we look for real solutions that are not profit driven to get us out of this situation. I believe that greed and shortsightedness got us into it. I'm sorry that money may have to take a backseat to human lives but we must come to terms as to how to get us out of this. I don't want you to give up what you have earned and I don't believe that giving people free money will help at all. All I'm saying is that a solution that gives people a chance at a better life and hope needs to come soon or we will get much further into a crisis. Unlike Greece or Great Briton, a lot Americans have guns and if they see no hope to feed their families or a chance to earn a decent living in the future there may not be a peaceful ending to the next protest. This is a serious problem and the people at the top of the economic picture will have to play a part in the solution.
The bucket-heads we have in congress obviously don't have a clue how to fix the problem and should be removed from office ASAP. They are too married to their party beliefs and won't look outside the box for an answer. If my employees don't do their job correctly they are let go. No hard feelings, they tried but they didn't or weren't able to meet my expectations. The Congress's inability to find an answer is inexcusable and they should be held accountable for their failure... period.
I was raised in what many of u would call simple life my dad worked the farms for our neighbors every season there was work hay, corn , tobacco this sustained our family.. I grew up helping my dad do these jobs and as i got about 12 started working full time in the summers and after school.
My dad was a decortated vet in ww2 and when he came home he went back to being a hand for the local farmers and this is how we lived our lives. My father had a 4th grade education and my mom couldnt read or write. We were happy
in 1991 the regular farmers that we had worked for and made a decent 8 $ hr for cutting and stripping tobacco had hired illeg immagrants for 4 $ they did nt use us who had been doing it all along and yes we got upset this was our way of life supporting our families u see my dad was a simple man and he raised simple kids we only wanted to get by he never drilled education into us. It was a mistake but we lived the best way we could ...now im 50 and im sorry to be a burden to society but im honest and i work hard when i can work i want a car but dont have one ..i wished i got a education but i didnt i went to the 7th grade yes i got a ged but that dont help none..
Unfortuantly my children didnt finish their education eithor not all of us are perfect but were still human. What would u have us do those of us who didnt do all the right things what do u want us to do? Jump of the face of the earth would that make all u rich people happy that are so distressed that we may be bringing the country down. this country was built by the simple man the man that rolled his sleeves up and worked the farms factories and warehouses to feed their families yes were simple people we dont want mansions but we need to care for our children and grandchildern even if we have to beg foodstamps or ssi. We to want to live and breath and eat .
Xinuout, that is a great post. I get so sick of hearing all the moneygrubbers spouting the same garbage over and over and over and over..... I did this, I did that, I, I, I, me, me, me, why do I have to pay for this, why do I have to pay for that. Then it always comes back around to: you should have done (fill in the blank) to become part of the 1%. The moneygrubbers are so naturally envious of what others have that they just assume that everybody else is just as greedy and selfcentered as they are. We do not all want to be rich! Get that through your thick skulls, not everybody wants to work 80 hours a week 6 and 7 days a weeks. Some(most?) of us just want to go to work 5 days a week and actually see our family but it is getting almost impossible to raise a family on a single income. I don't think anyone who dropped out of school expects to live like a doctor or a lawyer but, the gap has got to close some. And contrary to moneygrubber opinion, not everyone can go to college, for many different reasons but those people still need to live, and not like slaves. I think the REAL root of most of the coldhearted rightwing comments is far from what they say. They say: you should have worked harder, you should have went to school, you should have been smarter but all I hear is: "the world needs poor people, and they get what they deserve".
Perpetuating the great American myth.
America land of opportunity. Work hard and get rich.
The streets are paved in gold.
It is easyfor people like ternen to have their heads in the clouds when they are already on top. I cannot stand glen beck but undoubtedly the most(only?)intelligent thing I ever heard come out of his mouth was: "This country was doomed when the american dream went from having a 3bdrm house, two cars and two kids, to being rich and famous". Maybe the rightwingers should think about that before they start in with the " you should've worked harder and joined the 1%" garbage.
yawn
For so many deeply affected by the economic injustice of government policies, banks and wall street while living in poverty and despair, it's probably not true that they have a hangover from the occupy efforts. Many faith leaders across the country are supporting efforts to bring equanimity and compassion to those Americans without homes, jobs, health care, education. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2CZZ0vhS8U
Those fols made bad choices in life and now wants others to pay them to cover their failures - no I think not. You contribute nothing you get nothig. Your choice to quit free high school, your choice to blow off an education because its more fun to party, do drugs, ignore your responsibilties. There are some that fell on hard times because of a single bad decision and they have my sympathy but the vast majority are simply lifes losers.
And you Ternan and all those like you posting on this board and a myriad of others are naught but posteriors of a horse. I actually went to OWSNY and spent over a week there; strangely contrary to all of you bloviating blowhards the majority of people that I met there are 180° from your grossly uninformed opinions. I met carpenters, entrepreneurs (like myself), lawyers, ex-marines, MBAs, merchant marines, pressmen, steelworkers, retired grandfathers/mothers, et cetera ad infinitum. Yes there are some “Hippies” and ne’er-do-wells but, the majority of those I met are middleclass Americans who have jobs/businesses and are just plain fed-up with the corruption, deceit, lies, total and utter falseness of our political and regulatory systems. And if you do not see the brazenness of it all, then you can not see the forest for the trees.
And YES, the next step in my opinion is to take it political because THAT is the system in which an organized and motivated people WILL change things. And as we have seen, no government, syndicate, cabal can stand against an organized and motivated people.
Thank you James, good reply. I can't wait to hear all the anger and hatred after the next election when all of us that were part of or supported OWS, occupy the polls and vote out the moneygrubbers. Now, if we could just find an actual progressive to run for president instead of the republican trojan horse we have now, we would actually have something to look forward to.
Unfortunately I suspect you truly do believe your "plan" has merit. If your giving unemployed folk 500-600 a week to live where is their incentive to look for a job that will in all probabilty not pay as much? Remember the vast majority of unemployed have at best a high school education or if lucky a year of college. We are competing in a global economy against better educated, highly motivate workers from third world country's that work for pennies on the dollar that American workers demand in pay and benefits. Consider that our unemployment issues and lack of good high paying jobs are a self inflicted wound caused by our own American buying habits. Check out your closet is there even 1 piece of clothing in there made in America - I bet there isn't, who made your cell phone, your B lackBerry, your Ipad, Iphone, your LCD TV, your stereo, your washer, dryer, refrigerator, who built your car? Bottom line all those products use to be made in the United States by American workers in American factories but you and yours decided to buy the cheapest product on the market that happened to be made overseas, you shop AT WalMart that has over 82% of all of their products manufactured overseas and now your screaminmg about the lack of jobs???? Want to know who is to blame for all of this?? Look in a mirror your the blame.
The problem that the Occupy Wall Street Movement presents is not going away. the economy will get worse , police violence will increase and what is the solution ? Dale suggests government spending. Yes it would help a little ,but not in the long run. The cause of the basic economic problem in our country , the U.S. , is off-shoring of our economy , importations of slave labor products with which we can not and should not compete and which are currently killing remaining jobs daily, importation of slave labor to lower wages of Americans through open borders and visa programs. On top of that, the 1% are getting rich on endless wars which drove our treasury into near bankrupcy and endless bank bailouts burdened the American taxpayer with unpayable debt. Our representatives both Republican and Democrats follow the !% agenda and are ready to dismantle the rest of our social safety nets. The only forces that stand in the way are unions and Occupy Wall Street Movement. Unless , immediately, our wars end and the money saved is used for infrastructure to hire people, the importation of slave labor products and slave labor through open borders stop , our economy is brought back - I forsee bloodshed on American streets the likes of which have not been seen ever. The Occupy Wall Street Movement is only a peaceful beginning which can turn into bloodbath , ( the 99% can be armed at anytime) and the idiots in charge need to understand that the problem is NOT GOING AWAY UNLESS BASIC CHANGES IN OUR SOCIETY TAKE PLACE .
Joe; Thanks for the comment, You said it would not help in the long run, I think you are only partly right about that, if the deficit is paid off in two years or less, and these people are given a chance to recover, the country will have a few years to work on the problems that caused this recession, most people were taken by surprise by the extent of this no one thought that it would last this long, the 28% going to the states, every week for two years would help the states to get back on track, with their deficit problems, and pension fund problems, they would also save money, because these people would not need much from the states, that would save the states more money, and if the infrastructure , would put these people to work, the states would collect more taxes, , If the country could pay the debt down by say six trillion dollars over ten years, the interest saved would pay for this plan by itself, once the country is stable who knows what innovation could come along and pick everything up even more, no matter if this would all be paid for, and not add to the debt it would be good for the country!!!
Dale,
So that $500-600 dollars a week, where does it come from? How is that going to pay the deficit down? Oh, take it from someone who actually earned it? and give it to you for doing what? existing? That is Stealing. How about we let you pick up trash for 8 hours a day to earn your keep. We'll build a tent city you and your ilk can sleep in and only charge you $100 a week for food and $100/wk for rent. If the government pays you and you pay a portion in taxes.....say 20% where does the rest come from? Are you really that bad in math? Net sum game your system is broke before it starts. Please study something useful like economics or accounting.
San Antonio Kid; the bush tax cuts would pay for this and it would be enough to almost pay the deficit off over five years; the savings on food stamps, and unemployment would help to pay for this, the interest they would save when the debt comes down would also help pay for this,read the plan it all in there you need to take a course in reading!!!
You assume that 100% of the 99% will be on the same side when it comes to armed conflict.
Personally, my defensive measures will be turned on anybody threatening me, my family, or my property. If that happens to be a wild and angry mob looking to take what's not theirs, so be it.
The only difference will be that I won't use pepper spray.
Joe,
You are right on target. We are sending jobs overseas and borrowing money for consumption. It is a recipe for disaster.
Maybe I will listen to the conservative argument when they can come up with something a little less self centered than:"I'm not paying for it! Are you paying for it!? Cause, I'm not paying for it!"
Great post Joe!
Well Joe then suppose you and yours quit buying those slave labor produced products? So take off your chinese made shirt and slacks, your malaysian made shoes, throw away your korean made cell, your japanese made ipod, your Korean made LCD TV, your korean made car, etc etc. American business has nevber been the problem - the problem has always been the buying habits of the American public. American business moved overseas to survive in a global economy.
Ternan:
Your comment would have merit if it were possible to buy American. American business didn't move overseas to survive in a global economy. They moved overseas to show the power that they had.
Pvblivs, give me ANY example to support that ridiculous statement
Because ternen has none of those products. Where was the computer and all its components that you are posting on made? I would say that companies moved overseas because being publicly traded takes all the morality out of a business and the government has not done a proper job regulating publicly traded companies. When profits mean more than the employees, this is where you get. If you work for an individual, and your hours go up and your pay goes down, then there is a person that you can walk up to and ask, why. Why do I have to work more to make less just so you can make more? But, working for a corporation, when the same thing happens you can go to your boss and he will say:"It's not me. It's H.R.". When you go to the H.R. office you will hear:"oh we don't make those decisions. That's middle management". When you go to middle management they will say: It's not me it's the board of directors" And if by some crazy chance you could actually present your question to the the board of directors they will say:"It's not us it's the shareholders". And, good luck with that one. How about they do away with boards of directors and CEOs and start making shareholders vote on company policy in order to get their dividend check. I don't know how much it would help but it couldn't be any worse than the current situation. I don't think the average 401 holder would make the same heartless decisions that those on corporate boards do.
This plan would create a stable economy, and it would generate billions of dollars in taxes, it would pay off the deficit, and give the government a window to cut waste, and spending, and the millions of people who have fallen behind would have a chance to recover; it would also help fund the SS, and medicare, and it would also help all businesses, what does it matter if these people get this money? for a couple of years, to help them recover, the country would save billions of dollars in many ways, just the interest we pay on the deficit alone would amount to billions of dollars!
The infrastructure that would be done would help the country, right now there are millions of people who are in their fifties with little prospects for recovery, could get the help they need, after this recession is over these people will need help anyway, if they don't get help now, it will cost the country billions of dollars later, this would stabilise the country, and create demand in manufacturing, some would buy more fuel efficient cars, or be able to keep their homes, if you can get over the greed that stops you from seeing how this would be good for the country, and not worry so much about these fellow Americans receiving help the country would be better off ![ Its more blessed to give than to receive] !!!
Another thing this plan would pay for itself, and the security of the country would be more secure, with all the debt this would allow the country to pay down!!!
We need to fix trade and E-Verify the country so Americans can go back to work at good jobs again. Decertifying public employee unions, reimplementing the financial regulations that were erased during regulation that led to the real estate/credit/derivative economic crash, and closing the loopholes on the 1% would right this country quickly.
Help Fix America First - http://helpfixamericafirst.blogspot.com
According to the IRS, those in the top 1% of incomes have paid 38% of all individual federal income tax these last several years, an all time high percentage. The tax loopholes in the individual tax code were almost all eliminated back in the late 1980s, over 20 years ago. Those in the bottom 75% of incomes as a total group pay only a mere 14% of federal income tax.
And the sad fact is that raising taxes on ANYONE will not solve the problem of the national debt because as more revenue poors into the Federal Government, the Congress increases their spending habits. I am for tax increases but spending limits are an absolute must because their is no other way the debt will disappear.
Peter,, that i so wrong,,, Tell me why companies like GE or BP paid no taxes on record profits,,, and actually got refunds???
Rather than saying he is wrong Dougs how about providing proof he is "so wrong"
Peter is right They pay 38% of their income. However, almost all the wealth of the 1% is not derived from income as we know it. They use the still present loopholes, off shoring and tie the rest up in capitol gains. When you get paid in stock options, and other forms not taxed in the traditional sense, that 38% gets chopped in half.
Their true contribution is about 17% and not the 38% that was stated.
1. Immediately cease new citizenship. The ones that have started the process can continue on. It makes no sense to keep allowing new people in when unemployment is high already.
2. National use of e verify.
3. See a label with "made in China", leave it on the shelf/rack, boycott companies that outsource jobs. Protest with your wallet, not with tents. Occuping sites only cost the 99% more, they're/we're the ones picking up the tab.
I really don't think that is the problem. You are talking about immigration (legal). This country was and is founded on immigrants. The problem is the broken border allowing a steady long term flow of illegal aliens into this country. The left likes to brag that the Obama Administration has deported more illegals than ever before. I agree but this does not solve the problem of the tide crossing into the US illegally.
However - when we were bringing in all the immigrants through Ellis Island, it wasn't just a free-for-all. I swear I remember reading something about needing sponsors before you could get processed. I think you actually had to have a job waiting for you when you got here. But they were rather selective about who was allowed in - people with communicable diseases were sent back, for example. Basically, they allowed in people that would improve the country, not just anyone wanting to improve their own lot. With the insane uncontrolled border policy we have now, we have no idea what's coming across our borders.
I cannot believe that these people want to be taken serious after they cause the taxpayers to pay for this mess. They also cost us tons of money in overtime for the police. If you have a large college debt you only have yourself to blame you took the loan out no one made you.
Stossel interviewed one of the protesters and ask him what he wanted. Reponse: I want the federal government to take care of me. In other words he wants you and I to provide everything for him.
There's an awful lot of highly educated people with the "entitled" attitude out there.
They seem to envy and resent the so-called rich so much. However, they're not willing to work, to put in the time, make the commitment, or take the risks that the so-called rich take.
Yeah I'm sure Stossel didn't cherry pick the interviewee or the interview responses at all. He's a completely honest and ethical newsman. Cream of the crop I would say. Not biased whatsoever.
Getting million dollar bonuses when you almost crashed the entire world economy with your reckless 'risk taking' and took trillions of dollars in FED bailout funds; what, exactly, do you call that? I call that entitlement...
Let's just hope you're not stereotyping all of them based off of the interview they conducted that was the most damaging for the movement. I can assure you that they talked to several people and decided this one would fit in the best with the angle they wanted to portray.
It's classic manipulative journalism.
While I don't think these protestors are showing enough respect to the land they are on, they should not all be lumped into a "deadbeat" category as many people are doing.
That arrest record is going to show up when you apply for that job that you really want....Need an apartment? Sorry the background check is going to show that arrest also....Stupid people think that this is all fun and games....but I dont hire people with arrest records and I dont rent to people with arrest records....There are plenty of people out there who have pride and common sense in their lives..and that is the person that I would rather deal with....
Misdemeanor charges don't show up on your permanent record. Nice try though. And ignorant, prideful people are actually some of the hardest types to people to work with. They typically lack humility and basic empathy.
Jake....Keep the faith....but dumb....I have seen up to twenty pages of results on a background check...including even traffic tickets.... And, so often, there is that attitude that "no one can touch me". I always get a laugh when they say that the cops were out to get them....
I hire based off the person and weigh what the crime was. If someone has a record because they were driving 90 in a 40, I am not going to deny them employment.
Some of the most underhanded and dishonest people have no criminal records. Your logic is flawed.
You do as you wish, but don't think your getting the cream of the crop based off of if someone has a criminal record or not.
Mike:
He's not looking for the cream of the crop. He's looking for doormats. He wants slaves that he can chew up and spit out.
Not to get off topic: but as far as the occupiers go...who cares? arrest them and make them clean the park.
Someone in earlier posts mentioned background checks? are you kidding? I just moved out of Las Vegas NV., Jobs? background check? if that was the case, LV wouldnt have a job market, Renting an apt? if they ran background checks, they wouldn'tbe able to run a complex In Vegas, it'd be only, maybe 25% occupied.
Background checks? get a grip....and a clue. That's a real genius thing to say.
Notice how the corporate bloggers avoid the real issues.
They use personal attacks and hate talk.
Typical Propaganda techniques.
Yes, I think those who responded are typical of those who didnt get the job or the apartment. It is true that for every 15-20 who apply there is usually only 1-3 who I would consider a good prospect, but I have found that sticking to my standards has made for a much better environment than having to deal with the duds. It is much preferable to deal with good, honest people than with those who have no standards other than what they think they can get away with. Of course most of them have no idea why their application was not successful and if they dont ask, I dont bother to let them know. ...Look in the mirror guys, what do you see? No, what do you honestly see?
Cost to the city ??? ... do the math...190 protesters arrested and charged with misdemeanor with bail paid at $5000 each....thats One Million Four Hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
You dont know much about bail do you.
It comes with stipulations. Not guarenteed income.
When Bail is declaired...one only needs to post 10 % of the amount issued by the judge.
FYI, bail is only posted to ensure you show up for court. You can pay the entire amount in cash and get the full amount back when you appear for court, or pay a bondsman 10%, (his fee) and he then posts your bail. When you go to court, he gets his bond back. This money is not a fine or any revenue for the city/state.
Wow,, I wish I knew how to say this, without someone telling me to put my tin foil hat on, but We Are Screwed,,, I think all the anti and pro OWS people should do a little research on this, 'cause the end might be near,,, In a Link earlier in a different comment section ( http://problembanklist.com/fdic-to-cover-losses-on-trillion-bank-of-america-derivative-bets-0419/ ) I read something that shook me to the core,,, I have been trying to research economic theory for quite a while now trying to understand what was happening before the '07/'08 collapse,,, In the early start of the downturn I warned many times about the FDIC,,, At that time there were many banks, 120-1000+ depending on who you read in danger of collapse,,, The FDIC had insured deposits at these banks to the tune of 1 Trillion ( yes with a T) dollars yet the FDIC only had about 56 Billion in assets,,, The FDIC is a Federal Agency, that if it can't cover these deposits, yours and mine, The taxpayers are on the hook to cover them,,, Under our noses, not covered by MSM at all, in the last weeks, Bank Of America has transferred there derivative contract accounts from the holding bank division, to their FDIC insured commercial bank division to the tune of,,,,, wait,,,,, 75 Freaking Trillion Dollars ( Yes with a T ),,, That is right, more than the entire Worlds GDP Combined,,, Talk about to big to fail,,, I am now beginning to understand the actions of wall st. and the banks associated with it,,, I am scared @!$%#less of what will happen when these shady financial instruments begin to fail,,, If I am wrong , someone please tell me why,,, Then look at what has happened with china and the worlds central banks,,, and tell me we are not nearing a crisis point,,
Mortimer, that is not how bail bonds work. The city only gets that money from the bondsman or the person posting the bail if the person arrested does not show up for court. It is a guaranty bond.
50,000 pounds of crap and what about all that debris
The Gestapo strikes back with an "an elegant operational plan that was brilliantly executed..." So this means they cut in half the umber of broken skulls with their lead-filled batons and a reduction in the amount of pepper spray used... resulting in a cost savings for the city
These people had a choice: leave or be arrested and processed.
If they elected to go to jail, then what were they expecting? Were they expecting to be checking into the Beverly Hills Hotel?
They were being arrested for breaking the law!
Fools.
They knew they were going to be arrested. It's part of the protest process.
Steven:
Would that be the law against freedom of assembly?
Those "complaining" about their treatment upon being arrested...the simple answer to that is. Do not break the law and you won't have to worry about being treated like a criminal.
Very simple logic.
Being arrested is one thing, but being physically harmed while not resisting, is walking a fine line.
Let's say you forgot to pay two parking tickets and were arrested. If you don't resist arrest, do you think the police have the right to drive your face into the asphalt?
"Clean Government Amendment", NOW!
The only ones doing anything about a solution are being booked into jail for trying. Some of these big-shots need a thousand people telling them for weeks things aren't right before it dawns on them there might actually be a problem.
Sorry Darrall, there are much better ways to make your voice heard than camping out in a park for weeks on end. Are they really the "only ones" trying to find a solution????
This is our only Hope of reigning in
Congress
Article V of the US Constitution
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it
necessary, shall propose Amendments to the Constitution, or, on Application of
the legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a convention
for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all intents
and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures
of three fourth of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths
thereof, as the one or the other Mode od Ratification may be proposed by the
Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One
thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and
fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State,
without it’s Consent, shall be deprived of it’s equal Suffrage in the Senate.
What we need is:
Term Limits on everyone in Congress
Also that they cannot exempt themselves
from any law they pass
Talk is Cheap but never works. We need
action now
Could not have said it better myself.....TERM LIMITS FOR ALL ELECTED GOVT JOBS!!!
You get me out of bed, and this beautiful liberal WOMAN, for this?
Back to her for the 2nd. round, which is more than what ObamBa is going to get.
:-O
These people are protesting the Corruption in our country not that they don't have jobs, their are lawyers, unions and much more. Our electies are bought before they get elected Obama got trillions of dollers from goldman sacs then he gave them billions of tax dollers so called bail out when they didn't even need it, he filled the white house with Ex goldman sacs goons and put them in power of the federal reserve, then he gave the federal reserve more power. He also renewed the patriot act and started more wars. We need to stop contributions from corporations to our electies if not were are fooling ourselfs if we think we are getting a fair election, it's the ignorant people that attack the protesters for standing up for our Country. Obama tells leaders of other countries to step down for not letting people protest and when it happens in our country they pepper spray college students, violate peoples rights with brute force and arrest them to rob their money, what a bunch of hypacrites, they should ask for Obama to step down for allowing their rights to be violated. The federal reserve was forced to release documents that show they printed 20 trillion dollers out of thin air and send it to banks all over the world, thats right more than the national dept, thats just a figure they run up to enslave the people with dept, thats why college stdents are protesting collage tuition tripling along with every other knowledgable people of all the theft of the American people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
George if this is the case than why are they protesting wall street on the the white house?