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Subscribe to RSSA gay softball organization has agreed to pay an undisclosed sum to three players who were disqualified from its 2008 Gay Softball World Series because of their perceived heterosexuality.
And, as part of the settlement announced late Monday, their team will be awarded the second-place trophy it was denied at the time.
The men -- Stephen Apilado, Laron Charles and John Russ -- filed the federal lawsuit against the North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance last year, claiming they had been discriminated against because they were bisexual, not gay.
They had played for years on a San Francisco-based team called D2. Rumors had persisted that the team was stacked with straight ringers, and when they made it all the way to the finals of the 2008 tournament in the Seattle area, others filed a protest, accusing D2 of exceeding the limit of two heterosexual players per team.
Tournament officials convened a protest committee and brought in five D2 members for questioning. In a conference room filled with about 25 people, many of them strangers, the players were asked questions about their sexuality and private lives. The protest committee then voted on whether the men were gay.
Two were determined to be gay, but the committee found Apilado, Charles and Russ to be straight. The organization said that at the time, the men never identified themselves as bisexual, were evasive or refused to answer questions about their sexuality. Minutes of the hearing say that Charles claimed to be gay but acknowledged being married to a woman, and Apilado initially said he was both gay and straight but then acknowledged being more attracted to women.
The men said they weren't given the option of stating outright that they were bisexual, even though the organization considered bisexual players to be gay for roster purposes. They and their team were disqualified. One observer at the hearing commented, "This is not a bisexual World Series. This is a gay World Series."
Constitutional right
NAGAA said the settlement came after the organization won a series of motions limiting what claims the players could present at trial.
The players initially asked the court to throw out the roster limit on straight players as discriminatory. But U.S. District Judge John Coughenour ruled that the organization had a constitutional right to limit the number of straight players as a means of promoting their message that openly gay, bisexual and transgendered individuals can thrive in competitive sports.
The judge said the case could proceed to trial because questions remained about the way the softball association applied its rule, including whether the questions asked at the hearing were unnecessarily intrusive. The trial was set for next month.
"We have been vindicated by the judge's First Amendment rulings," said Roy Melani, NAGAAA's commissioner. "This lawsuit threatened not only the purpose of our organization, but also its future. We fought hard to protect ourselves and our core identity and I am relieved this issue is finally behind us."
Since the lawsuit was filed, NAGAAA has added language to its rules clarifying that bisexual and transgender players are fully welcomed participants in its events. As part of the settlement, the organization said disqualifying D2 was not consistent with its goal of welcoming bisexual players.
"NAGAAA regrets the impacts the 2008 protest hearing had on plaintiffs and their team," the settlement reads.
The National Center for Lesbian Rights, which represented the men, welcomed the changes but said they should go even further. The group still wants NAGAAA to delete its roster limits on straight players, on the grounds that it encompasses gay players who are in the closet or who choose not to put a label on their sexuality.
Charles said he's looking forward to playing more softball.
"It means a lot to me that NAGAAA is going to recognize our second place finish in 2008," Charles said in a statement. "I look forward to continuing to play ball with my friends, teammates and community in NAGAAA's tournaments."
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Kind of odd, they were inned when they wanted to be out. Do they only play 3 innings in a game in this league? To be safe in this game, you have to be out.
How utterly pathetic. Men acting like women acting like men playing softball. What a confused bunch of people.
Tim, trust me, a lot of those guys could beat the crap out of you with no problem!!! and A LOT more could intellectually embarrass you! You're pathetic!! (and that's me being nice)
If this is softball, I would hate to see 'hardball'.
Hey JerseyJ9, if they are so tough why are they afraid of playing softball against straight men?
Purnell Jr.,
It started with Tom's obsessions so I believe they have a right to tell the other side of the story unless it offends you of course.
mike, it is not about being afraid. I know you wont understand this, but there is a sort of 'peace' that comes with being with your 'own people'. Not everyone wants to fight for every second of their lives or live in perpetual worry and just want to enjoy an activity with like minded people without judgement or snarky remarks.
Ah, so you want to be treated as equals but you want to be around "your own kind"....makes sense.
So it's OK to discriminate as long as you're not being the ones discriminated against? I know this argument has been beaten to death, but if there were a "straight men's" softball league, you know you would be singing a different showtune.
gmk -righty. right? articles about a gay softball team.
LOL..... this society is so ridiculous... it's acceptance and apotheosis of any weakness and confusion in our evolution as a people is going to be the downfall of mankind....
@JerseyJ9.. you're a tool.... you try to conjure some "feel good" reason for their actions... but what you can't explain, with that "feel good" reason is, why they'll allow up to 2 straight men.... lol... it's because of the same reason a firehouse full of women would be ridiculous.... There are OBVIOUS physical and mental differences between the sexes... as there are between normal and 'gender confused' people..... and this reasoning you like, JersyJ9, is pretty lame... that "a lot of those guys could beat the crap out of you with no problem!!!" so what? the majority couldn't though... and that's why there's a limit of "straights" per team (which just actually cracks me up).
There are some women 'out there' that could beat up some men too..... but the HUGELY VAST majority of women couldn't. People need to get realistic and stop with this political correctness stupidity...
Thing is..... who cares if women aren't as physically strong as men?????? seriously! does it really matter in our society of such high technology? does it matter that I can lift Amy above my head when it comes to who can type faster? lol... it's total stupidity to give a CRAP about who's stronger than who, when it comes to gender... neither could live without the other.... neither would be here without the other... neither can do the same things or cope with the same things as the other.... we all have our strengths and weaknesses..... why do certain people have to get all up in arms about other people being able to do something they can't? woopty do... go do what YOU CAN do instead of telling everyone that you CAN do something you CAN'T...
back to this 'league of gender confused softball players'..... what I think is.. you all should review the biology behind reproduction and think about how your gender confused lifestyle can't populate, and reconsider if your lifestyle is correct or not... obviously, if your emotions are telling you to hump a tree because that's what you like...... then there's something wrong with your emotions.... because nothing good comes from humping that tree.... and no, you tree humpers out there can't start a minority! I'm going to draw the line there!
What the HELL is this story doing on the front page of a major news website?????? You should be out investigating the Justice Thomas' activities and why he should recuse himself from considering the HCA. Or maybe you should be informing America about the GOP's ongoing attempt to suppress the DEM vote in the 2012 elections. A softball story???? GOOD GRIEF!
Why aren't you complaining about stories about celebs? Or anything else beneath your grand notice?
Because there arent any celeb stories on the top half of the front page! My comment has to do with the mainstream media ignoring the really important things happening in this country while filing up space with things to distract us from the really important things going on!
Tom, you knew what the story was about, you read it, and commented on it. How does this mesh with your indignation re: media coverage appropriateness? There are plenty of "real" stories being covered. They weren't bumped to make room for this one.
Shutup, Tom. I'm a bigger lefty than Sandy Koufax but I don't spend all day every day fretting about whatever it is you're fretting about.
I'm glad gay people are able to have softball teams - though I'm not exactly sure why I think a story like this is an indicator of how far the country has progressed in its attitudes about gays. 'm also glad there wasn't a sandstorm (or some kind of storm) of homophobia in the first thread.
P.S.: the story is under the "Explore" section. It isn't in the local, national, or world news section. The Explore category has all kinds of subjects listed in it.
Tom so rearange the page so the "news" is at the bottom of the page... it's YOUR choice how to read the news and what to read or not.
Tom - Your righteous indignation of the left-leaning media not covering left-leaning stories to your satisfaction is humorous, at best.
I don't suppose you've considered that there are some other stories that the media may have missed - such as Justice Kagan's prior involvement in the HCA, or that the Executive Branch is making end-runs around the legislative process via Executive Order.
Nah...none of that would be of any interest to anyone...would it?
Hey Tom, in case you haven't noticed, Sotomayor also worked on Obamacare. Is she going to recuse herself from hearing on it? Hahah.
RicCastagna and Skiddy - Shutup with TOm - no one cares about your obsessions
Obviously they can't promote their message without a few "ringers." Overall, I agree, this isn't front page material....but it is a humerous light read. Bottom line, most of us could care less...it is their problem, fix it and move on. Also, it is pretty demeaning to have to qualify by sexual preference....guess talent is not important any more. It always saddens me when the gay community reduces human value to sexual preference. Humans are so much more than their sexual preference.
I'm so glad the didn't beat around the bush on this decision.
"It always saddens me when the gay community reduces human value to sexual preference. Humans are so much more than their sexual preference."
That is what we are trying to tell other people. If there were not a market need for a gay league, a gay league wouldn't exist. No one wants to be excluded or harassed for trying to participate in a sport. If we were not harassed while trying to play sport with the general population, then these leagues wouldn't exist! Dont blame us for wanting a safe place to participate in social events, when 'you' create the conditions that requires them.
Willowbrook, I don't normally nitpick.. but you "couldn't care less." To say that you "could care less" implies that you care at all, which I don't believe you were trying to convey.
Anyway, though homosexuals have been discriminated against in sports, I don't ever think there's been a written rule in any legitimate organization that specifies a preference for heterosexual players, or that there's ever been a ruling on a disqualification due to gayness. Why is there a "gay league" in the first place? Social acceptance of homosexuality has come very far, the existence of a "special" league for gay men only reinforces a divide.
This is sooo utterly fantastically funny...
Ed - if you don't normally nitpick why would you bother Willowbrook on this one? It's kind of like irregardless - so what if it's wrong - common usage makes it OK (except for nitpickers.) Now if you were to say "nondisirregardless" then I might have a problem.
In case you haven't realized, gays play in major leagues already. They play based on their ability, not their sexual preference. That is the whole point. Basing qualification on sexual preference to qualify is demeaning. It doesn't place the emphasis on the correct qualitites, talent and ability. Yes, there will be fewer gays playing than straights, but that would be natural since there are fewer gays in the world than straights.
Ed, you can nitpick, you're technically correct. I could care less. This is not a real issue.
Yall are so FUNNY!!! Reminds me of Little Richard - "SHUT UP!" LMAO!
This story is a hoot! "You married a woman!!!???!! - Well we will have no more of that!"
Ed - I can tell my cold is getting me down. I was correct, you didn't quote me correctly. We both need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Hey purnell tough guy, why don't you make me?
No, it doesn't.
I'm a gay man, and I find the whole idea of a gay softball team to be archaic. What's the point? Gay athletes don't play baseball or any other sport "differently" than straight players do. A sense of camaraderie in sports comes from playing the game together, working as a team. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, or skin color, or religious affiliation. If people WANT to form baseball teams that are based on sexual orientation, skin color, or religious affiliation, then by all means, go for it, but what you have isn't a baseball team; what you have a social organization that uses baseball as a reason for being, and the sport, teamwork, and all that it conveys, isn't the focus.
There are tons of social events around exercise.
Except they throw like girly men...
NEA proves exactly why we would like our own safe place to exist and enjoy life!! It is people like NEA (which i hope does not mean nation educational association because you are ANYTHING but educated) that are antiquated and are holding our country back from great things. antiquated mentality is antiquated!
"That is what we are trying to tell other people. If there were not a market need for a gay league, a gay league wouldn't exist."
What hogwash. I've played softball for 20 years in a number of leagues here in the great bigoted South. Never once have I been asked "hey you like girls right?" as a prerequisite of joining. A good number of the teams I have played on have had openly gay men and one had a cross dresser. They were not excluded in any way. Gay people seem to be obsessed with their gayness these days. You don't need separate gay only league to play softball. If you want a separate league then fine start one, but don’t bitch when other closed minded bigots like yourself start hetro only leagues.
I see this bs as no different that white only restaurants, any group that makes a place where they only can hang out with one group or one people based on an characteristic is a bunch of bigots that are trying to separate themselves.
I'm not a heterosexual Softball player; I’m just a softball player. When you start to think like that instead of prefixing everything with your sexual preference then you will find you are accepted.
Well john, your ONE example is great, but it does not represent a solid data point. How many gays did not play in other leagues all over the USA? Maybe they were drawn to your league BECAUSE no one would harass them. There are pockets of 'understanding' all over the place, even in the bigoted south. Usually around institutions of higher education.
I know right?? f-us and wanting to have rights to visit our partners in the hospital and take care of their bodies after death and the 1,200 other protections. How DARE we!! I'll shut up about my S.O. when christians stop shoving their religion down my throat, deal?
restaurants are public domain and fall under anti-discrimination laws in the Constitution, so was thisleague, they broke the rules, and they lost. Justice served!! Did you get sick of hearing about black people in the 80s-and 90s?
John--- BRAVO!! My point exactly!! Most of the rest of the comments dont deserve refudiation!!
Shouldn't this story be in "News of the Weird." Not that it's in reflection on sexuality, but that one must be a certain sexuality to play on a team. Even in high school, mixed genders are playing their representative team sports of football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, etc. It has nothing to do with gender bias, and everything to do with sports' skills.
Back to weird: "Straight ringers"? How would you prove yourself? C'mon folks, you've got to laugh. Think of the opposite: Gay ringers. It's too much.
"In a conference room filled with about 25 people, many of them strangers, the players were asked questions about their sexuality and private lives. The protest committee then voted on whether the men were gay." Now, I don't mean to be demeaning, but I thought people were born gay, not voted on to be gay.
Just keep reading the article. It's a sad, sad commentary on who plays better ball. (OMG, I did it again.)
I guess when it comes to sexual orientation, bisexuals are the only target group left.
Isn't this the worst case of reverse discrimination you've ever heard of? It goes beyond weird.
it all seems so queer to me. i'm just sayin.
Ah, "separate but equal" rears its ugly head again, this time in "gay" sports. Good grief, can't people just play softball? Do they really need to form teams based on sexual orientation?
When America accepts everyone equally, then maybe their won't be a need to label players in sports or any other organization based on their sexual orientation. However, I suspect this will never really change, there are to many organizations in this country that are made up of people who share similar values and beliefs.
If these men want to have their own baseball league let them, its their choice, and this is America.
So if I want to have an all white team or a men's only club or boy scouts with no girls then you are ok with that? I mean this is America right?
Bill all of those things exist already. they are private clubs. How about you just participate in something you really want to, not because you want to be a jerk and make other's lives harder for no reason other than you're a jerk!
@JerseyJ - LOL! You guys are making my side hurt!
Yeah i frequently laugh at minorities being forced to accept the people that hate them into their private social groups!! *not*
Bill -
The United States allows a HATE group like the WestBoro Baptist Church to exist. A group that symobilizes hatred toward gay people and picket the funerals of our military that died to protect our very freedoms. I don't think a men's gay softball league is that big of deal right?
Please keep your sexual orientation to yourself.
Please stop going into places where you know a lot of gay people will be and stop telling us to keep things to ourselves. How about you keep your sex life to yourself. we dont want to hear about your husband or how many spawn you have spit out!
Sure, if you do, and good luck with that. Sexual orientation permeates our lives. It isn't just about sex. That means no discussion about your spouse or kids, no wedding photos where we can see them, no talk about what you and your spouse did on vacation, no talk about the operation that your spouse underwent, no displays of affection in public. In other words, live in a vacuum and be invisible.
Well said JerseyJ9 and Hans. Applause from Texas.
One would think the players themselves would enforce the rules of their league under the circumstances.
If the purpose is to prove a point as with a "GAY SOFTBALL LEAGUE", then that's what it should be. How does the league promote a message that "openly gay, bisexual and transgendered individuals can thrive in competitive sports" if they have to stack their teams with straight players to compete?
The court hearings are disgraceful and inexcusable!
Hoorah for the queers. Isn't America a great place to live. Even the queers get a day in court.
I agree with Hans. If we are to get past the "gay" thing we need to be inclusionary and forget about one's sexuality. I am not pro-gay but am not anti-gay either as I judge someone by their personal content. Blacks have a tendency to preach inclusion but practice exclusion. I wish we would all realize we are in this world together and need to work together to solve problems not CREATE them.
Wow, a few questions in a roomful of strangers and one of the most perplexing questions about chromosomes and genetics and personal choice is answered just like that.
I am assuming they are not the pitcher and catcher.
hahahahahaha
Huh?
The absurdity of this is beyond belief. People who say they fight discrimination, discriminating. People who say they are just like other people, saying 'not so' when it comes to baseball. Just weird.
So the queers are now allowed to discriminate against normal people?
I thought that was the whole message of faggotry, that it was diverse and all inclusive and never discriminated.
The homosexuals lost a few of their fairy wings it looks like.
You are under some false impression that we have to stand there and take your crap because you are the majority, well we dont!! You have no 'special' rights, we have a right to exist peacefully too!
You are not 'normal' you are unnatural, animals do not pray!!
Yeah this is what these fags want rights for so they cqn be a bigger pain in the ass then they already are.
Yeah cuz we LOVE when you shove your opinions into our lives!!! /snark
So....gays are a pain in your butt, AND - you gravitate to news stories about gays. That's clear as mud.
Hmmm........Where's the outcry over the intolerance these gays are showing? Nothing but double standards.
This act of intolerance ended in courtroom. That isn't "outcry" enough for you? Or maybe there's no outcry from gays and straights alike because the "victims" in this case were kept from playing in a softball game. They weren't denied housing or employment, nor were they harassed, threatened, or beaten because of their sexual orientation. "These gays" and "double standards" my foot.
Here's a thought, how about not using gender, sexual orientation or any other differentiating factor and just having a softball league? What separates us can make us unique, but it can also separate us.
Because people want to be a part of specific social groups. That is a part of freedom, you can CHOOSE who you want to hang out with and "should" be letting the other groups also exist freely.
You shouldn't have the 'power' to MAKE me hang out with a group of people i do not wish to associate with. I do not wish them any negative things, i just choose not to participate in their activities. Live and let live, not FORCE everyone to do things they do not want to.
Thanks MSNBC, I needed a good laugh today!
(I guess they don't allow switch hitters!)
(Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "foul balls")
(Would a straight player want to "get to first base" in this league? What about a "home run"? OMG!)
Add your own!
Wait. If you only have sex with another person of the same sex once, you're not a homosexual? That sure wasn't the culture when I was in the Navy.
And, why is it illegal to have a heterosexual only league?
I just assume any guy playing softball is a bit ghey, it's a girls' sport. If it were baseball, that would be a different story entirely. jk... :p
Freaks suing freaks
But priests molesting kids are not freaks, right?
Jersey,
Where did that come from?
Out my a$$ like MSNBStupid's comment lol. Just an exercise in saying random things that really mean nothing!
Using one example of disturbing behavior to justify another is not an effective argument.
Isn't 'homosexually challenged' the pc term for 'straights' now in gay society?. This article again showcases the ridiculousness and flamboyancy of a small number of gays which does nothing but make more people think all gays are this ridiculous and flamboyant (thus increase prejudice and hate).
Isn't this discrimination against straights. Could any other league disallow gays because it was a "straight" World Series? Funny how discrimination works one way!
now thats queer.
lol.. yes it is.....
Oh boo hoo hoo you pooooor straight people with ALL of the 'privledges' of being straight. I know it's hard to imagine, but maybe we dont want to be around YOU!!
Jersey, you were doing good up until now. Try not to let the idiots provoke you into acting like them, ok?
Your right, blue rose!! My apologies!!