You made me laugh. Very clever.

Great line E!

Yep, these OWS (Day of Rage on Wall Street - Ex-SEIU Lerner) will even follow "suggestions" coming from Canada....."Adbusters, the Canadian magazine that launched the initial call for people to Occupy Wall Street."

However, “Occupy Black Friday will not stop the magic of the holiday season for you or your families. You will still be able to get the things that you need to get in plenty of time to give them to the people that you love.”

Oh, that is nice. Do your little sit-ins for Black Friday and demand consumers not spend anything....hit them where it hurts.....in the 99 percent owner's stores wallets, yet go out and spend later to get the things you need for your holiday season.

HYPOCRITES.......and the OWS portesters, who have no minds of their own, are eating this up. Wait a minute, sounds like Mr. Obama's supporters.

Better idea: FLASH MOB the White House to not have any holiday parties at 99 percent expense and FLASH MOB the Congressional Halls to not work the rest of the year.

I #occupyajob full-time plus entrepreneurial work that takes hours more and I fully support the basic ideas of #ows. You should, too.

Master bob ...... In the immortal words of the late and great Sam Kinison he had it right when he said STOP sending them food ..send them luggage and they can move where the food is. We have deserts in America but we don't live in them!!!!!!! just wanted to add that Happy Thanksgiving to all

"#occupyajob and leave us alone"

You first.

forinfan, some of the OWS basic ideas are fine, but how they have gone about their "protesting" has been nothing short of being comical, silly-ass @!$%#. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot. They are starting to remind me of PETA.

I will not stop occupying until we get the thieves and extorsionists out of the White House, CONgress, and our banking system.

FORINFAN

how about stating the GOALS of that OWS bunch of whatever that you are supporting. They have GOALS? Thats real funny.

Buy Nothing Day has been going on for many years now, this is nothing new.

You can get the thieves and extortionists out of the White House and Congress by voting. Same goes for bankers. Vote in people who will crack down on and regulate big banks. We have a system for handling these things and disrupting commerce is not the answer. These people are the vocal minority and are welcome to move somewhere else in my opinion.

Good idea, OW geniuses! Did you ever watch those 350 pound mamas on TV who wait in line all night long, and then storm the entrance like blitzing linebackers when the door opens at 6am? They'll crush the OW freaks like a steamroller in a gourd patch.......getting done what the cops can't do because of the PC limits put on them.

I'll just make this as simple as possible. Our economy works by the purchasing of goods and services from each other. Every time you buy a gallon of milk, an Ipad, a basket, or whatever; you are transferring your wealth to another. It might be the dairy farmer in the mid-west, the person who grew the wheat, the truck driver that hauled it, the ship captain/crew that brought it here, the retail clerk that sold it, or even the person in china that made it. The purchasing of goods and services is what creates and maintains jobs, the lively hoods of countless people. Demand for a product or service will determine if a company continues to make it or expand to produce more. We depend on each other to survive, we transfer wealth from person to another person by trading value for value. Just remember that when you start this. Think of %99 that depend on you and I for their source of income. OWS might has some good points, but their message at this moment is to throw the baby out with the bath water. We are responsible for the mess we are in. We lied to our kids when we told them they could grow up to be anything they wanted. We allowed people to buy things they could not afford or had earned. Now we as a country need to use this season to fess up and put or nose to the grind stone, and get back to making things here so our home can support it's people. Time to get to work.

Classic. The people complaining of not having jobs want to make sure that people in the 99% have a harder time keeping their jobs. They've been misguided since they started this nonsense and apparently they still are. This is just a ploy to keep them in the news since everyone has forgotten about OWS already. It didn't accomplish anything except being a minor annoyance and this won't either.

Good post Morius.

Morius, great post. I agree with you 100%. I do, however, believe that America is great because you actually can be whatever you want to be. Just don't complain when you can't pay the bills because of your choice.

“Hit the 1% where it hurts -- in their wallet. They will listen quite closely then,”

Do these people seriously think they're hurting the 1% by not shopping on Friday? Since the 1% are supposedly crooked bankers, oil barons, or inherited their money from Daddy, it's unlikely they'd be so useful as to actually own a business.

These people are destroying the small business owners of this country. Don't they know that most retailers make 60-85% of their sales for the year, starting on Black Friday? We are not talking about just Walmart, Target or Sears (which employ hundreds of thousands of people), but small retailers too.

If this group once had a good message, it is long gone. They need to go away now.

StrengthinNumbers: What a tacky thing to say.

Actually, the word tacky is tacky.

I agree with Morius's sentiment up there, but I also think that Morius is a naive dreamer.

get back to making things here so our home can support it's people

Tell that to the Koch brothers and others who keep shipping jobs off to the land of 30 cent an hour workers. You can tell them that by not buying the products made by those 30 cent an hour workers. As long as Americans are attached to their cheep goods, as long as they purchase without conscious, then we will only continue our downward spiral. If a society wants to maintain a lifestyle then there has to be a pact among the members of that society to do what is required to make it happen. Our grandparents had that, but it has largely deteriorated into every man/woman for themself. I don't see that changing any time real soon.

Why protest when you can get a job and better yourself. It is not the 70s you hippies! QUIT Protesting it does nothing but cause traffic and litter. LOL

I'll bet it has not had not tweet. :P

I believe I have the right to shop when I want. If you dont like to shop, dont. Why try to change me? Why trample on my right to do as I please. Why do you want to control people?

I don't get the, "Get a job at McDonald's" sentiment. People act as though McDonald's is always hiring. I don't think that is the case. Secondly, if you were the manager of a McDonald's, would you hire someone who is clearly overqualified and likely to use the position as a very short-term solution to finding a job in their field? Unless you are a really bad businessman, I doubt it.

Mike Check Mike Check Mike Check

They keep paging Mr. Check. Who is this Mike Check guy and why are they looking for him? Is he wanted? Serial pooper?

I think it's refreshing to see people shaking the rust off our Constitutional right to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, especially when those who hold the financial power can't stand to hear what they are doing to this country and to others is both morally and ethically wrong.

Man in the silk suit hurries by and catches the poor old lady's eye, just for fun he says "get a job."

That is just the way it is, some things will never change, that is just the way it is, but don't you believe it.

morius?? why should i want to support jobs from china...with cheap labor...and the corporations making a bundle off them...bring jobs back here..then will talk

I won't be shopping on Black Friday. I have to work. At the "World's Biggest Toy Store," for my 19th Season. Sure wish I could sit (in) out in the park. But I can't afford to lose my job. It's cutthroat out there, and greed rules. No holiday or Holy Day means anything anymore. The people running the show only care about money, and the shoppers only care about getting what they want and getting it now! I really wish we could go back to a simpler time when people cared about eachother.

ps: Keep up the good work, "Occupy!"

John-2032532: I don't know who Mike Check is, but I've met his cousin, Mike Hunt, she's nice.

I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving and a beautiful Christmas.

I agree christine...but having a country full with greed...i hate to say those days are LONG GONE!!!

OCCUPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same to you Christine

The reality is, American citizens would not want to have the manufacturing jobs even if they were brought back here. They wouldn't pay enough. Just like those awful McDonald's jobs. You cannot pay someone doing a job more than the product they are making would bring in. No company could survive. And we, as Americans, are thrifty at finding the best prices on any product out there. So those high priced products produced by the US manufacturing plants would sit on the shelf, and only be sold on.....black friday at deep discounts.

So instead of complaining that there are no manufacturing jobs, get trained to do other things. Accounting, nursing, and IT are just a few of the jobs that are needed. Start your own business....lawn care, snow plowing, drive way sealing, driving service, pet walkers, pet sitters, in home care for the elderly, handy man, are just a few.

I know I will get pounded for this opionion, but I have done it myself. Life is hard, and you have to play with the hand that is dealt to you. Make the best plays you can.

i do believe there are quite a few farmers and such looking for workers in Alabama and Georgia right now. So to say that there are no jobs would be false. if you want to change something, go vote for it or run for office instead of ruining the lives of the rest of the so-called 99% :)

Will all the people like Justin-2719467 just stop harping about getting a job? How stupid can you be? Are you forgetting that we are experiencing such high unemployment? high unemployment plus corporations cutting more and more jobs, equals a sh!tload of people who won't be able to find jobs.

Voting will do nothing, when the corruption is systemic. New blood and ideas are quickly indoctrinated and forced into the status quo, because that's just how things get done in Washington. So what's the fundamental flaw? Our founding fathers knew of it, but the seed of power sat elsewhere during their time: with dogma. They realized that in order to protect and preserve both the church and the state from one another, they must be kept separate. Now ask yourself, "What is the modern American religion, what do we worship, who are the temples and where is the clergy?" The modern religion is money, we worship wealth, corporations/banks are the temples, and CEO's and bankers are the clergy. It is blatantly evident that the "church" in this case, and the state are so intertwined, that it is impossible to tell them apart. Thus, if there is any hope for the future of America, the constitution must be amended to: 1. End the FED. 2. Revise Tax Code. 3. Remove all corporate affiliation with the political process. (And the list would go on) - Those who a system favors, see no reason to change it - more importantly, will actively resist change through violence if necessary. For a long time now, the best tool was the illusion of only a two party option that pitted the proletariat against one another. The novelty of this is wearing off, so you must ask, "What tool is left..." Look at history or the present to see what the last action of the power elite is toward the working class masses before the downfall - and you'll know where we're heading. So the next time you see a protester sprayed, or dragged off, or beaten - know it's just a taste of what's to come.

op2388 Farm work? Are you serious?

I am a nineteen year old college student who is paying my way through having a job. I have had a job since I was 13. I live in the middle of nowhere and yet I have always been able to find an occupation. Has it always been glamorous or what my dream is? Of course not! But I do it because I have to. I'm tired of hearing people complain about unemployment when I walk around day after day and see plenty of signs asking for work but people won't take the job because it's "below" them. Stop whining and #occupyajob, no matter what it is

The protests will not stop Black Friday - probably will not even slow it.

The Occupiers are attempting to make YOU aware of how unfair the system has become. The Occupiers are attempting to encourage YOU to think about how to change the system. The Occupiers will not change the system for YOU ...

You want the Occupiers to go away - get a job? Create one and see how many apply. If you want the Occupiers to go away - do your part and create jobs for them to go to ...

Ami249: You are a very mature 19 year old. Refreshing to see a young person with such a good attitude.

Yes Amis, make yourself an indentured servant for life. If that's not good enough you can work for minimum wage 12 hours a day picking tomatoes or sweet potatoes. Sure, someone has to do it, but for it to be a cheap commodity a new updated form of slavery is needed - but wait, illegal immigrants are doing this work! That's horrible! Quick, find the 8 native-born Americans who can and will do this work!

This is another example of OWS not understanding the business (retail), and calling it greedy because it's large. They have no clue what goes on inside a business, big or small. So all business are greedy and corrupt according to them.

They have no idea that retail HAS to make it this time of year. I don't care if it's Walmart or Joe's retail on the corner. If Joe doesn't sell enough, he closes and his family suffers. If Walmarts doesn't sell enough, 10,000 people lose jobs. It's all bad.

This OWS has to stop their negativity. We all know there are many problems, economic, political, etc., but their approach is hurting and pissing off everyone.

As pointed out in the first post, getting a job would go a lot further.

Ami BRAVO You are a true American with the right spirit.

Nerm So if the Occupiers get a job they stop protesting? Wow, so simple. I think they are professional protestors.

I actually plan on opening my own business when I graduate college or else open a business with a partner. I wasn't aware that supporting myself was being an indentured servant, but good to know what I can put on my next resume :)

Tetra, I think you missed the part about Amis going to college and paying her way through it. Becoming an indentured servant for life is not mandated, it's a person's options and decision making that decide it. If you can't create an opportunity for yourself, that's just sad and just shows why our country has slipped so much in the first place, because people let themselves get taken advantage of. For one, I'm glad that we still have people like Amis in America.

@Lar-345817 -- All those retailers - big and small - will be accepting big bank credit cards.
All those retailers - big and small - will be paying the big banks for the privilege.
All those retailers - big and small - have included those big bank fees into their cost model.
All those shoppers will be providing the big banks more money to lobby with ...

How can a business advocate not understand how the big banks take advantage of those that really work?

How can the Occupiers get jobs if business will not do its part? You do not care if the Occupiers get jobs or not - you just want them to go away - to stop threatening your comfort zone.

None are so blind as those that can afford to not see ...

Nerm

Yes the banks make money off fees. Do you have any idea what it costs to provide security, regulation, personnel to service credit cards. Probably not.

Ami Good for you. You will have a successful business.

Imagine the person who started a business 20 years ago, grew it to a very large business and made millions. The American dream. Now he is told he is corrupt and greedy by OWS, a group of lazy unproductive people living off the taxes that you already pay. And they want you to pay more. That is what is happening.

I am so confused with the occupiers. Stop corporations from making money, less profit equals less employees. Less employees equals less money. Less money equals less jobs elsewhere. less jobs elsewhere equals less money everywhere. Less money everywhere equal more homeless everywhere. More homeless everywhere equals more occupiers. Ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get it now.

The occupiers are going to find out what private property means if they try to block shoppers at malls or stores.

You will be cuffed and removed for tress-passing.

Then you can occupy a jail cell.

And oh boy, those evil rich will have to pay to feed you, clothe you, and house you.

In the jail.

Ryan

Its a lose lose situation for the "evil rich" (sarcasm), either pay them now in entitlements, pay the police in taxes to control them, or pay for the cost of a public Defender, Court and jail.

Talons

Good reasoning. Simple and accurate. But that is beyond the comprehension of the Protesters. And I know they are smart, we are paying for their education.

@talons-1110240 -- More profits does not mean more employees. You are describing the unfair stranglehold business has on average Americans. Its not about making money - it is about how the money is made.

Our current economy is based on competition for employers. Inflation in our current economy is driven by profit taking through speculation, productivity increases, and investor activity. The current economy favors investors. That is why it is more difficult to start new businesses and sustain small businesses.

Creating conditions that increase jobs in the US would flip the economy to competition for employees. Inflation would then be driven by wage increases and consumer supply/demand factors. Such a change would favor workers and increase the availability of discretionary money for spending. That would favor the creation of small businesses.

Business is no longer operating by the principles of capitalism. Business has established and is defending a culture of privileged, 'too big to fail' entitlement. The business driven politics of defeatism is social engineering to allow a small segment of the economy to prosper. New wealth created in the economy is being redistributed to that favored segment of the economy. The 'fiscal conservatism' and 'no tax' pledges are simply to allow that segment of the economy to retain the inflation they have created. The politics of defeatism is specifically designed to maintain that crony economy.

Ami Good for you. You will have a successful business.

Technically speaking, 8 out of 10 small businesses fail within their first 5 years. So, from a statistical standpoint, she will likely not be successful. Sure, it's courteous to tell kids that, and get their hopes up, but it does not follow reality.

I would suggest a stable back-up plan for anyone trying to start their own business.

IndieParty: I've known quite a few people who've failed at their first business, only to hit it out of the park on their second or third try.

It's people like Ami, people who take risks, who create the jobs that sustain us all.

Good luck, Ami!

Indie

I was encouraging him or her. Clearly I don't know what will happen and you are absolutely right about small businesses. But being positive about it is important. And experience at failure is not a bad thing. You can't succeed if you don't get up to bat.

@Lar-345817 --

Yes the banks make money off fees. Do you have any idea what it costs to provide security, regulation, personnel to service credit cards. Probably not.

Apparently about $63 billion in 2010. That is about $180 for every man, woman, and child in the United States. The banks are 'earning' $15 a month from every man, woman, and child in card swipe fees.

Merchants paid $62.75 billion to the banks for plastic card transactions in 2010. . Last year the cost was $0.44 to for a debit card transaction. Even if you do not use a card to make purchases - the prices you pay in the store are higher so the retailers can pay the banks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304584004576416064098735924.html

http://consumerist.com/2011/11/walmart-mcdonalds-ceos-swipe-fee-reform-may-end-up-hurting-our-bottom-line.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/swipe-fees-cap-federal-reserve-wall-street_n_887193.html

The banks 'market' spiel to merchants is that the use of cards result in consumers spending more when they buy with credit.

Armando: I suppose it's a good thing that statistics take into consideration a larger sample set than the few people you know.

I merely point out that 80% of small businesses fail. So suggesting that someone will be successful is factually incorrect. They have a much higher chance of being unsuccessful, and thus requiring assistance to get back on their feet. In some cases, we the people end up paying for this assistance. Suggesting a back-up plan is simply smart planning to avoid such a situation.

I'm sorry if my realistic point of view upsets your ideological world. I fail to see how suggesting a back-up plan can be considered a bad idea.

Tell that to the Koch brothers and others who keep shipping jobs off to the land of 30 cent an hour workers. You can tell them that by not buying the products made by those 30 cent an hour workers.

ROTFLMAO! Maybe you should start by telling that to the people supporting OWS. Or haven't you noticed how many of them have iPhones and iPads. I guess they only believe in sticking it to those people shipping jobs overseas if they don't make the cool gadgets they all want. In fact they even had a moment of silence when Steve Jobs passed. Talk about hypocrites.

Without the banking and financial system, who would finance your new home, your new car, your college tuition? Yes, what the banks did was wrong, they granted mortgages they could not pay back and compounded the amount because of greed and opportunity. But banks only gave out so many mortgages because there was a demand for them, and too many Americans spent beyond their means and bought things they couldn't afford. We can't change what happened, and I agree there needs to be reform for more accountability and responsibility, but what does OWS expect, an instant utopia? For the 1% to donate their savings to the rest of the country? Humiliate them by taking away everything they own and redistributing it to the poor? But wait... isn't that what the Communists did in China? And look, even they ended up caving to capitalism, whether they'd like to admit it or not.

@zoe-227321 -- What is the purpose of banks in our society? Is that purpose to provide a benefit to society - and profit from that activity? Or is that purpose to only benefit themselves at the expense of benefiting society?

The banks were not gambling with their money. The banks were gambling with OUR money. That means the banks have a greater responsibility to be cautious - to be responsible. Banks are not regulated simply because they are big - they are regulated because they are responsible for society's money and wealth.

Our society has placed its faith in banking so that the society at large can prosper. Making a profit from that responsibility is acceptable.

Simply making profits by irresponsible action, at the expense of society, is unacceptable.

The argument is not about making money - it is about how the money is made ...

I get so tired of the Eric's in this country; they never were placed in a position of having to scrounge to survive, so any type of hardship is everybody else's fault:

I also occupy a job full time. And I have a family of 5. And I would do whatever I had to do in order to provide for that family even if it meant working outside my "preferred" profession. I am not above working at McDonalds.

The rest of his rant states that everyone who isn't him is either a socialist or a communist. Then, he gloats on himself (as the perfection of man):

I for one am above average, and deserve above average compensation. My quality of work has ALWAYS gotten me above average compensation, even when I was 16 years old on my first job.

Well, CRAP, Eric; so am I. I have always performed exceptionally well and was paid very well. I am currently am, and started when I was 15 years old (pumping gas - lied about my age)! But that didn't stop the economically crushing, Republican inspired, recession of 1990 after the Savings and Loan collapse. Try to take a guess at what collapsed the economy that time, Eric; I dare you. Oh, you wouldn't know since you were affected; the S&L's all sold "junk bonds" and invested in worthless real estate at over inflated prices until the hint of a recession collapsed the real estate market. Sound like 2008, Eric? It should; it was that same, damned, thing!

I survived this time, but I lived off of minimum wages for 4 years, because Republicans didn't give a damn about anything except making the wealthy far more wealthy.

So, Eric, take you socialist and communist talk to place where everybody else hates anyone and anything that isn't them (including you); that is where it belongs!

"Adbusters proposes "...hahaha...communist outfit telling you what to do...interesting

here is WHO Adbusters is:

occupy fleabaggers + Soros' Economic Policy Institute + Soros' Tides Center + Soros' Move on + Campaign for America’s Future (MoveOn.org, which has joined Occupy, is funded by Tides. CAF’s board of directors includes MoveOn.org President Eli Pariser) + Fenton Communications + Adbusters + Roger Hickey (who was a founder and chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus... founded by the Democrat Socialists of America) etc etc etc

the list goes on and on and they can all be tied to activities promoting , empowering , and backing the "occupy" movement

Adbusters can kiss my buttocks...

Good job, Eric. I'm currently a full-time college student, but I agree with what you've said. Don't pay attention to the posts criticizing you-either they are jealous, they can't handle logic, or they're jealous people who can't handle logic.

Note to nitpickers-what I said after "Don't pay attention..." refers to the people who complain just to complain. I feel sorry for those genuinely going through a hard time, encourage them to do whatever they need to do to keep going, and hope they will get to a better economic place.

Jon - You're grumpy. And a bit more than misguided if you think only one political party has had a part in this country's (economic) demise. As a matter of fact, all of us are responsible as we keep electing the same reps and expecting something different. "It's always someone else's rep that's a problem. Mine is great." Yay, right. Wall Street isn't the problem. It's the yahoos that we the people keep electing to office that are giving away the cash.

As a consumer based economy, it's us that have driven jobs overseas by opting to buy cheap, poorly made products. It's too the point now where we just throw away rather than repair. Even the mom and pop, 'local' shops mostly sell imported stuff. As consumers, we can change the hours of operation by not shopping immediately after Thanksgiving dinner. We can drive the food producers to organic methods by only buying said foodstuffs. We can do anything precisely because the method in which we spend our money will drive the behavior of the banks, vendors, producers, whoever.

Nerm_L and grumpy_jon...............thank goodness for people like you....seeing it how it truly is.

For those of you who don't like OWS....sorry folks but our constitution allows us to assemble and protest, if we ignore this right.....it may be taken away. Do you folks realize that American corporations that employ people in socialist France must adhere to strict French union laws.......because the French assemble and protest for their rights........corporations must give them 6 weeks off a year and many other benefits.

These corporations laugh at Americans who basically "vote against their own best interest" when they side with corporate America and agree that: "yes" you should work on black Friday and not be with your family if you want a job"!!! You people who say this are giving up your rights !!! These corporations love people like you, you're idiot robots who do what they want. Can't you see they are already taking away your health benefits at places like Wal-mart !!! They've taken away pensions. Now they are taking away your Thanksgiving Day by making you come in at midnight, next it will be Christmas Day too. Quit siding with corporations, you deserve better for all your hard work, don't give up your rights !!!

Harry Blank...you are right! This OWS is also tied right to the White House.

If these protesters don't like this country, LEAVE and go join the middle east groups.

@Master Bob - Stop complaining about raising a family on $7 an hour. If they still taught FAMILY PLANNING in school, you would better prepare yourself for it. I have a friend that is working three jobs to support his family after loosing a high paying job. And it is by his choice so not to depleat his funds for his kids college education. And Africa? Really? We can spend billions to feed them and teach them to feed themselves (which apparently is not working) but we can liberate another so they can have a chance, insead of a dictator that kills his own tribe...hundreds of thousands...

Good job, Eric. I'm currently a full-time college student, but I agree with what you've said. Don't pay attention to the posts criticizing you-either they are jealous, they can't handle logic, or they're jealous people who can't handle logic.

MsPiven: Actually Eric's post is not logical, and is simply all talk.

You see, Eric starts by saying that he is a father of 5 who would do anything for his family. He then says that he is not above working at McDonalds. Although this sounds good on paper, and makes him feel good about himself, it is a blatant lie. Faced with this exact situation, Eric would never work at McDonalds. Why? I'm glad you asked.

If Eric is truly a father of 5 who "would do whatever I had to do in order to provide for that family", he would require a certain income threshold to "provide". This threshold is determined by cost of living expenses and necessities (rent or mortgage, gas, water, electric, food, clothing, transportation, insurance etc.) Now, when you combine all these expenses, for a family of 5, you have your costs. Even if you assume conservative estimates, a minimum wage job at McDonalds would not cover the necessities required to "provide for that family".

This is where reality conflicts with ideology. From an ideological standpoint, and the comfort of a well paying job, it is easy to say you "would" take a job at McDonalds if you needed to. From a realistic standpoint, anyone with half a brain would analyze the costs needed to provide for their family, and apply that requirement to their job search (unless you have no problem watching your family starve, or live in a tent).

So, Eric is nothing more than a liar. He can easily "say" that he will work at McDonalds because he is not faced with that reality. If he was, he would come to the realization that a minimum wage job is not sufficient for a family of 5 (unless he is willing to risk losing his children to social services because he is not providing necessities). On top of that, many employers will not hire over-qualified people because they have a higher turn-over rate. So even if he did try to get a job there, it is likely he would not be hired because he is an extremely risky candidate for the position.

If you are going to claim someone is "logical", please apply a certain level of "logic" to their claims.

The reality is, American citizens would not want to have the manufacturing jobs even if they were brought back here.

That's really not true. I worked manufacturing many years ago, when I was young. We made more money on piecework, than most of the people I knew made at their jobs. That's why we worked there. It wasn't because the job was the greatest. It was because the money was better.I'd take it over McDonald's or Walmart any day.

Speaking of McDonald's @ Eric the G of A:
I didn't read Master Bob as saying he wouldn't do whatever it took to feed his family. I took him as saying you can't feed a family of 5 on $7 an hour. Do the math already. 40 hours (which you never get at places like that), times $7, minus Uncle Sam's cut, insurance, gas to get there and back...etc., etc....
You try to feed a family of 5 on what's left and tell me how you make out. Don't forget you still have to pay rent and lights and heat etc., and what if one of those 5 kids gets sick? You just leave them to get well or die?

Your kind of words always come from people making big money. Even if you don't like what they do, count your blessings and hope you never find yourself in the position #Occupy is fighting for.

Conway: Seems we both made similar posts, regarding Eric, at the same time. LOL

Those type of people always bother me because they are blatant liars. Never once have they actually analyzed the required income they need to feed their family. If they did, they would come to the realization that a minimum wage job will not provide what they need.

I see a lot of people who don't understand how this economy has affected millions of Americans. Working in the fields? Really? Many of the unemployed are older and have health issues. Many people were just like you, but then lost their jobs/business due to the economy. There is rampant age discrimination too. One minute you can have it all and the next it all changes. These arrogant harangues telling people what to do are annoying when it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about. The OWS movement has brought the issue of wealth disparity into focus, and that is a good thing. This country has been turning into a plutocracy and some of you are either too naive to get it or are hacks for the plutocrats. Issues need addressed, and people are paying attention.

Hi there. Occupy here. Nice to meet you. I'm also a self employed businessman. And a full time university student.

For the record, I love this country. I want to do everything in my power to leave my kids, one day, with something they can be proud of; a nation of idealists who believe in the democratic process, are well informed, and exercise their rights as Americans. If you look at the wealth discrepancy in this country, it is obvious that something is not working properly. Somewhere, the system went off track. I'm not an economist, I'm a mechanic. I don't know how to fix this, but I want to be involved in what seems to me to be the one group of people in the country right now actively trying to raise the issue of true systemic reform.

I want a democracy. I want capitalism that works for everyone. I want to be an engineer one day, an inventor, but I can't do it in the current system without soul crushing debt.

I want a dialogue, an honest discussion, in every house and town hall in America, about what the hell to do now? Because leaving it in the hands of the suits and then washing our hands of it is no longer acceptable.

Thank you for your time. :)

Have a great thanksgiving.

-K

Nerm, not in all cases, but in most does more profits mean more employees. hmmmmmm, Evil Target has xxx of stores, they employ xxx amount of employees. which translates to INCOME FOR ALL. They open another store because..........wait for it............ they have the PROFITS to open another store. That translates to...........MORE PROFITS hopefully, and ............MORE EMPLOYEES, and MORE INCOME FOR ALL. Now, evil corporation Blockbuster is making LESS PROFITS, are they adding employees, or closing stores and laying off employees? Hmmmm, I know, thats a tough one right?

Ryan they will only be cuffed if they survive getting in the way of the shoppers. Otherwise they will be scraped off the pavement and hauled to the hospital. Then they will learn the driving force of American capitalism. The women with the list who will run over anything in her way to get the things she wants.

To all of you OWS ers. Ummmmm, hate to tell you this, but you are responding to a post from an evil corporation, on a device, made by an evil corporation, with electricity, supplied by an evil corporation, through the internet, supplied by an evil corporation, wearing the clothes, made by evil corporations, eating food, from evil corporations, while in your tents, made by evil corporations, or cars,powered by gas, etc. ALL WITH MONEY IN THE EVIL BANKS you all hate.

If you are so against the evil corporations do something about it. Show us how full of your convictions you are and grow your own food, make your own clothes, and tent. Build your own internet,computer, and place to post it. etc. Live your life like the Omish., you know, you have seen them on TV......made by an evil corporation, etc.

Stop with the holier than thou attitude when the simple fact is EVERY ONE OF US RELY UPON THE "EVIL CORPORATIONS" for every day life.

IndieParty

Conway: Seems we both made similar posts, regarding Eric, at the same time. LOL

Those type of people always bother me because they are blatant liars. Never once have they actually analyzed the required income they need to feed their family. If they did, they would come to the realization that a minimum wage job will not provide what they need.

IndieParty:
Great minds think alike! (and apparently, at the same time, lol)

@talons-1110240 -- Do we value our individual citizens by their credit rating? By the credit limit on their credit cards? By the amount of profits finance and banking can obtain from them? Is that the 'value' of citizenship?

Is our Constitution simply a charter to reward those clever enough to create dependency on the products and services they sell? Is the Constitution only a commercial contract? Is the American role on the world stage controlled by S&P, Moody, and Fitch credit ratings?

Is that all America is about??

Does our 'system' operate by capitalism or entitlement? That is the key question. It is not about being 'rich' or making profits. The frustration is about how the money is made.

Capitalism operates by providing the best value to its customers and making a profit from that activity.

Entitlement operates by providing the least possible value to its customers in order to make the maximum profit.

The frustration is not about Steve Jobs - he provided value for his profits. How many customers feel cheated by Apple? The frustration is about Jon Corzine or Bernie Madoff - they provided the least possible value to their customers and reaped maximum profits. How many people feel cheated by their actions? How many Corzines and Madoffs are feeding on the system that we do not know about? Who has more influence over our 'system' the Jobs type of people or the Madoff type of people?

Corporations are as 'evil' as they choose to be.
Supporting our American way of life - for ALL Americans - is a choice, too ...

@IndieParty

So, Eric is nothing more than a liar. He can easily "say" that he will work at McDonalds because he is not faced with that reality. If he was, he would come to the realization that a minimum wage job is not sufficient for a family of 5

Gee, did I miss the part of Eric's post where he said he'd ONLY work at McDonalds? No, I didn't, you just assumed that's what he meant because you can't imagine having to work more than 40 hours a week. God forbid anyone should ever have to do that; obviously the government should do something to insure that is never the case. Durrrrrrrrr Lots of people take a second part time job to make ends meet even if that part timer only pays min. Why don't you take your head out of your @ss and use it BEFORE you call someone else a liar.

If you are going to claim someone is "logical", please apply a certain level of "logic" to their claims.

Do as I say, not as I do???

entitlement is paid for by.................................... THE CAPITALISTS. The capitalists dont need the entitlement crowd, in fact, they prefer that EVERYONE have money so EVERYONE can prosper. The sooner you learn that the better off you will be. I would much rather rely upon my own work ethic to pay my bills than rely on YOUR work ethic to pay MY bills.

Its as simple as that.

Indie, I will run the numbers for Eric to see if they work. Federal min wage is 7.25 but several states have higher amounts so I will use 7.50. 40 hrs times 7.50 equals 14,400 a year. At that amount he will not pay any income tax so there will be no withholding. He will lose about 1,000 to social security and medicare taxes. Leaves him with 13,400. At this amount he will qualify for section 8 housing support, reduced utility costs, and several government aid packages. When he files his taxes he will get a refund of over 8500 due to EITC and additional child tax credit (assuming his kids are all under the age of 17). Thus his income for a year will be almost 23,000 not counting free aid. He can get food from food banks and eat lots of mac and cheese and hot dogs. Plus he has a wife who could also get a job to work at times when he doesn't work (maybe at the same McDonalds so that they don't have to pay for child care). Since he is a hard worker I am sure that he would get a raise shortly and move up to be a shift manager, or an assistant manager or even after awhile become a manager. while it would be very difficult to do, it is possible. The numbers prove it.

Get a job? Well why didn't I think of that?! /sarcasm

There's a few things you didn't think about when making this enlightening statement of yours:

1. If you haven't noticed yet, the job market is trash right now. Businesses are laying off folks and consolidating positions. This means that a) there aren't as many jobs to be had and b) employers are seeking only super-skilled workers to take up the slack - unless you have years of experience in exactly the specific areas they want, they toss your resume.

2. Most of the jobs available are part-time, non-benefited positions that pay minimum with no chance of advancement. Do you take the job? Yes, of course you do, what choice do you have? But while you're struggling to make ends meet, the realization sets in that you can't get ahead any time soon - I don't care what your work ethic is. If you're truly trying to work your way up into a career, these kinds of jobs aren't the way to do it. Employers hiring farther up the chain of command don't give a rats behind about your experience in flipping burgers and working a register. In most cases, it's not even worth listing on a resume.

3. And so this all leads to another crucial fact you missed. Since #1 and #2 are true, people are going back to school in the hopes of improving chances down the road. Unfortunately, this often means taking on loans, pushing them farther into debt. To make things worse, the value of a degree has diminished while the cost of obtaining one has increased exponentially over the years. So, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

4. Well, you think to yourself, F school then. Go start your own business and .... but OOOPS - starting one from scratch costs the one thing you don't have. MONEY of course! So what will you do now, beg for change on a street corner? Hey you have to make a living somehow, right?

Please think before posting. Thanks.

@Eric:

I already have a job, as do many others in the movement. Don't you think that statement is getting a bit old by now? If you're going to try to discredit something as big as this, you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

It seems the useful idiots of this OWS, or Occupy, or 99%, or whatever they call themselves, never learned these 11 simple rules in High School.

Rule 1: Life is not fair – get used to it!

Rule 2: The world won’t care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

Rule 3: You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You won’t be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.

Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.

Rule 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents had a different word for burger flipping: they called it opportunity.

Rule 6: If you mess up, it’s not your parents’ fault, so don’t whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren’t as boring as they are now They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent’s generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.

Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they’ll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn’t bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don’t get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.

Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

Rule 11: Be nice to nerds. Chances are you’ll end up working for one.

If you can read this – Thank a good teacher.

Mr. or Ms. FreedomRingsHollow,

I'll go through your rules 1 at a time and in the order you presented them (also please see my previous post):

Rule 1: No, life isn't fair - that much is obvious. I don't think that most OWS, 99%, or whatever you want to call them think otherwise.

Rule 2: Actually, the world DOES care about your self-esteem. Do employers want to hire someone without confidence or motivation?

Rule 3: You're right. Most folks won't make $60,000 out of high school or college for that matter. Those times are long gone. You make it sound like everybody is an idiot but listing this as a rule only accomplishes that for you.

Rule 4: OK. We get the point. Life sucks, get a helmet, right?

Rule 5: Flipping burgers is NOT opportunity. It's a dead end job. Again, it ain't what it used to be. Welcome to the service economy.

Rule 6: Actually, parents only have the responsibility of raising their children, which can affect the rest of their lives. Sometimes the parents ARE to blame. Sometimes there are circumstances out of your control. But yes, you'd expect a few turds in the toilet bowl of life every once in a while.

Rule 7: Now you just sound bitter. If you're going to sound like an ass, at least try to make a substantive point. Nothing to see here.

Rule 8: I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. So if a kid fails, society should just give up on him/her? Education should follow a business model? Please elaborate.

Rule 9: Life isn't a classroom environment, ok great. Keep your work and personal life separate, got it.

Rule 10: Yeah and some poor schmuck has to work in that coffee shop for minimum wage. Thank them. But yes, television is not real life. That has nothing to do with anything, however.

Rule 11: There are no "nerds" anymore. You're behind the times. But in all seriousness, you're more likely to work for an a-hole who did nothing to "earn" their title - he/she just knew the right people - than you are to work for someone that smart.

I agree. All of the Anti-black Friday/Capitalism folks shouldn't buy stuff that way when the stores don't make enough money they'll lay more people off and those people can come join you in the protest because they'll have more free time. If anything, we should be spending what we can afford to (notice I said afford to not go into to deep debt for). Hopefully it will have a trickle down effect and maybe give more people an opportunity to find work.

Hopefully it will have a trickle down effect and maybe give more people an opportunity to find work.

You're kidding right? You still think money trickles down? It will go straight to the top where they will bank it with the billions that they are already hoarding until they get that permit for their next Chinese factory. Republicans think the OWS folks are funny, and some of them are. However, the facts that they are protesting, that the playing field has been irreparably slanted, are as true as it gets. If you are employed, then be grateful because it only takes one twist, one person deciding you do not need to be there any more, and you are in the same boat as those you make fun of. Those that say different are as delusional as the average "can't happen to me" teenager. No one has a permeant position any more, not even the guy at the top. The guy at the top will just be paid a lot more for his failure than you will.

Too many of you just dont get it. I really think you lack perspective - I think many of you are young and lucky enough to not have financial problems (yet) and then a great many of you are at the other end of life and have either COMFORTABLY retired or are one of the lucky ones to have managed to hold on to a good job with a good employer. FOURTY FIVE PERCENT of this country's population now live below the poverty line, or are in jeopardy of sinking into poverty. This is serious. The history on how we got here is out there for anyone to study up on. Of course, if you are one of the lucky ones who have not suffered, its easy to just say "get a job, ya bum!" Just like the unaffected twits of the Great Depression used to do to those who WERE affected. Too many of you - cant see past your own noses. If life is ok for you, then its easy to be so cavalier about the miseries of many - including the miseries of the slave-wage employees who have made the garbage stuffing these big box stores. There was once a time - not so long ago -when the item made outside the borders of the USA was a rare and exotic gift. How sad that now it is the item Made in the USA that is the rare and exotic...

For everyone of you who sit in your Easy Chairs looking down your noses at the protesters who have had enough of this mutated economic system (its not fair-shake capitalism any longer, folks) - I do hope your lives fall to hell like has happened to so many of those protesters. Because those who take things for granted, deserve to lose them. Then you can learn something called compassion.

Oh, but do enjoy your big Thanksgiving feast tomorrow, and be sure to be Thankful that the fates have not stolen your home away, that your job was not shipped overseas, and that the only job you can find doesnt pay enough for a cheap studio apartment in a crime-ridden section of Town.

There was once a time - not so long ago -when the item made outside the borders of the USA was a rare and exotic gift. How sad that now it is the item Made in the USA that is the rare and exotic

That's because you lot made it too difficult to build and operate factories in the US, not to mention made it more difficult to extract natural resources. How many well-paying jobs could the Keystone XL pipeline have created in the US? 300k? 400k? What about that Boeing factory in South Carolina (oh, I know, it's one of those icky Red states, and everybody knows people in Red states aren't really people. Science says so!)?

For everyone of you who sit in your Easy Chairs looking down your noses at the protesters who have had enough of this mutated economic system (its not fair-shake capitalism any longer, folks) - I do hope your lives fall to hell like has happened to so many of those protesters. Because those who take things for granted, deserve to lose them. Then you can learn something called compassion.

Oh, get off it. All you guys want is a handout. I'm all for compassion, but to dress up giving everybody a handout as compassion is just wrong. It fosters dependence, and takes money away from people who could be starting new businesses that would employ the very people you are concerned about.

Besides, I don't know if you heard the news, StrengthInNumbers, but we're broke. In fact, we're beyond broke: $15 trillion in debt. There. Is. No. Money.

And don't tell me about how Europe gives all their citizens a private ass-wiper or whatever---they're in as dire financial straits as we are. The only reason the EU hasn't totally collapsed is because all the other countries over there are mooching off Germany to stay afloat.

Bottom line: this whole stunt that OWS is going to pull is just theater, cathartic nonsense that will win them nothing but scorn from the 99% for their holier-than-thou attitudes and wrong-headed economic thinking.

What about me? It isn't fair-I've had enough now I want my share.

Can't you see? I want to live! But you just take more than you give.

Why don't you occupy a jail cell?

Because....

In fact, we're beyond broke: $15 trillion in debt. There. Is. No. Money.

People seem to forget that prisons cost money.

I don't think the 99% should boycott. The 99% should continue buying 99% of their items that are made in China. Did you see Diane Sawyer going through a couple of US households ?

Good posts Amused and Strength in Numbers. People like Eric in Antarctica that think they have it made and look down their noses at those who don't, are quick to comment that they would do anything to survive, but have never had to do that, so they're just blowing smoke out their bums. I know people who had six figure incomes that have lost jobs to downsizing, moving locations for cheaper help, or just because they were no longer wanted. What ever the case may be, these folks have had to lose nearly everything they've worked for, including homes with have been foreclosed on. Let me tell you, there is a point when you want to give up. I've been fortunate, so far, but I know what others are going through, and I know it's not because they're lazy and want handouts. That's the biggest line of BS there is. So, Eric in Antarctica, here's to hoping you lose your job, house, your wife and kids and have to ask someone for help.

Millions of Americans have been living paycheck to paycheck for decades. That has not changed. What has changed is that many of those people maxed out credit cards they should never have taken out to begin with and bought homes they could afford and had children they could not afford.

A few months ago, I had this conversation with a devout progressive. She is in the health care field and deals with those on medicaid all day long. I talked about when I was young and decided early on that our family income was NEVER going to be large enough to have more than 1 child. I felt bad, but felt blessed to have 1. We did not want to become a burden to my family, which one of my sister's already was due to cc overuse and having too many children. So we stopped at one. As I was relating this story, my friend said that she disagreed with me that people shouldn't have children until they can afford it. She felt the poor should be able to have as many children as they want and finances should not hold them back. I was stunned. This was an emotional reaction for her. She felt the joy of having children should be allowed by everybody no matter if they could afford those children or not .

Can she not see that the rest of us then must step up and support those that cannot afford children? Can she not see that having children they can't afford is putting them further in poverty?

That was the day I realized liberals are practically unsound. They react from an emotional base and the economic consequences be damned.

These are the same losers that buy $5 coffees at starbucks.

theBoys,The point of the Occupy protests is not to allow everyone to have everything they want or need. Instead, it is to promote regulation that prevents the extreme levels of exploitation from global corporations. To prevent predatory lending pratices, to disallow corporations to raid pension funds, to enforce the Fair Labor Standards laws (believe me,these are regularly being ignored in this economy). To stop the stock market from being basically a shakedown of small investors in favor of rich insiders. To reduce the ability of corporations to seek the nations with the lowest wages, worst working conditions, and least environmental rules. And on and on. To prevent corporations from blocking regulations to protect consumer, workers and clean air and water. I can see that the Occupy protests are drifting in another direction as they are taken over by street people, but the original premise was and still is, valid.