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By Miranda Leitsinger, msnbc.com
NEW YORK -- Defiant Occupy Wall Street protesters streamed into Zuccotti Park late Tuesday in a bid to rebuild their cause less than 24 hours after police removed them from their camp, with one activist saying the eviction had helped push an important "reset button" on the direction of the growing grassroots movement.
A fired-up crowd of several hundred joined in the first general assembly since the Tuesday morning eviction. Some wore paper cutouts reading “99%,” others carried American flags and several held signs, including one that read, “You cannot evict an idea whose time has come.”
“We can’t fill this park with tents right now, but we can still fill it with our energy," protester Sully Ross, a carpenter from Brooklyn, told the crowd gathered under a light rain and trees of golden-colored leaves. "We can fill it with our bodies and we can fill it with our ideas. …We’re declaring this night a night of celebration and a night of planning.”
Void of the tents that had filled it until early morning, protesters shared their experiences of the eviction and gathered in small groups to discuss the best ways forward. Ross said more than 80 working groups -- tackling issues such as electoral reform and alternative banking options -- were continuing their work and that the spokes council -- made up of those working groups -- would meet Wednesday.
“We must ... recognize our strength," said protester Nysheva-Starr, 35, who led the group in rhythmic clapping to promote unity. "If you lost a little bit of spirit yesterday you're in the right place to get some of it back."
Protesters in, tents out at NYC 'Occupy' park
A judge on Tuesday afternoon upheld New York City's legal justification for evicting Occupy protesters from the park after police in riot gear broke up a 2-month-old demonstration against economic inequality.
Protesters were allowed to return but Justice Michael Stallman found that the city, at least for now, can ban them from camping in tents and sleeping bags at the park between Wall Street and the World Trade Center reconstruction site in lower Manhattan.
The New York City chapter of the National Lawyers Guild had wanted the judge to allow protesters back in with tents and sleeping bags. The guild said Occupy organizers will have to work on strategy about where to go from here in the coming days and months.
Though the ground had been cleared, dozens of books lined the "people's library" in its old corner, and the medical and kitchen working groups set up a presence in the park, too.
Not 'Sleep at Wall Street'
Justin Stone-Diaz, a 38-year-old protester involved since the early days of the movement that began Sept. 17, said the eviction -- though horrible -- had helped pushed the "reset button" on Occupy Wall Street.
"Now, we'll actually be able to do what we've been planning. The biggest thing that was stopping us was the camping community ... it was full of tenters," making it hard to use the park for events, he said, noting that protesters would continue to use the space. "We got overwhelmed by all the campers. (And) once the camper population had a consensus in the group, our group started going in a different direction, which was maintaining the camp."
"It's not about the park, it never was," he added. "It's Occupy Wall Street, it was never 'Sleep at Wall Street.' The message got confused in the camping, the expansion."
The last general assembly before the eviction was marked by yelling and heated exchanges, showing a schism between those living in the park and those who were not. The campers said they felt underrepresented and didn't have enough daily resources as winter approached. That meeting came days after an ad hoc group of protesters held an alternative general assembly and yet others living in the camp formed their own movement.
Dissension among the ranks at Occupy Wall Street
Some protesters had voiced concerns nearly two weeks ago -- when a man was charged with sexual assault of a woman living in the Occupy Wall Street camp -- about security issues and possible weather-related illness taking over the narrative of the movement. Occupy sites in Portland and Oakland were shut down, partly over security concerns, last weekend.
Jacob Seligmann, a 36-year-old composer who visited Zuccotti Park often and had helped out with security there, said late Tuesday the eviction had helped turn things around.
"It was like a really quickly deteriorating situation (the security) and now look ... this is even better," he said. "The movement is not about camping out ... the movement is about people getting together and collecting ideas."
Looking around the park -- where dozens of protesters mingled after the general assembly while others set off on a march to police headquarters in solidarity with those still in police custody after the eviction -- he noted it was "light" and "airy," and that people could easily meet and talk.
"You don't have all those other issues to encumber us," he said. "It was like they did us a great favor and they gave us all that great publicity."
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Occupy Wall Street all day all week!
OWS coming to a park near you! Party all night, share your tent and drugs, weapons and women with fellow patriots. Come on down before the cops do....
“We can’t fill this park with tents right now, but we can still fill it with our energy," Ross said, adding "We can fill it with our bodies and we can fill it with our ideas. …We’re declaring this night a night of celebration and a night of planning.”
Without tents and the ability to cook, it will soon dissipate. They have the right to protest during the day, but cannot stay there at night. It will soon get very cold.
Why just all week? Why not all month or all year? Maybe you can set a Guinness Book of World record for the most people standing around not accomplishing anything.
I shook my bearded pubic hair out on my buddies head one night....thats all! It was a @!$%#ing joke man!!!!!
From what I hear from actual people, not internet trolls or the mass media, is that people love this movement. I know I do.
What is it about this movement they like or you for that matter?
Is it their list of goals and if so which specific goals?
Is it their plans for achieving those goals? Tells what plans they are in Love with?
Is it the leaders of the Movement they are in love with? If so What are the names of these great leaders?
Or could it be your just in Love with the IDEA of people being treated fairly and equally, government and business being held accountable,etc.
Tell us Who is going to achieve What and How...
God bless them & help them in their cause. No matter how many people these filthy immoral politicians & millionaires pay to write comments defaming OWS & to destroy their property, the majority of the people are with them. Everyone knows what's going on. Thank God they have lots of donated money & many lawyers donating their time to fight this out in court. I hope that filthy Bloomberg looses any chances of re-election after this term. Their 1st Amendment rights have been violated by a passive agressive thug using a very well thought out coverup. May justice prevail in the end.
For what reason are they bringing American Flags? They defecated on the last ones;
http://angrywhitedude.com/wp-content/uploads2/2011/10/occupy_wallstreet_flag_poop.jpg
I suppose they are planning ahead in case there are no facilities.
Eviction - foreclosure - illegal to resist - too small to exist.
Beaten - gassed - bloodied - bruised.
And yet they are here ...
Greed has no morals - no ethics - no core.
Greed is self serving - with self righteous deceit.
Greed is the problem - no less - but no more ...
Don't cry over yesterday, celebrate what tomorrow can be ...
To David Noah- I am absolutely thrilled and filled with hope by these protesters. I am a middle-aged, middle-of the road midwesterner, but in my heart I am right there in Zucotti park supporting these patriots, who are showing TRUE love of country by devoting themselves full-time to the tough task of making the dull-eyed masses of Americans aware of the catastrophic MESS our country is in, and are pointing out the real causes- corporate greed, corporate ownership of politicians, money being wasted on massive military endeavors that are not in the interests of America, etc. In the last 2 months I have done more research on corporate personhood, the Glass Steagall Act, the rapidly increasing disparity between the incomes of middle-class worker and the top 1% of the wealthy, and on and on . . . I can now see what is so horribly wrong in our country and that we need a total overhaul of our economic and political systems quickly if our country is to be saved from 3rd world status not far down the road. That is why I love OWS. They are my heros, tackling a difficult task because they can see that our country needs their help.
Is there someone everyone could agree on to be the head of these protests? Is there someone and only one that has the answers or the ideas that will fix our problems? I'm looking for someone other than the idiots in Washington to vote for. There must be someone willing to stand up to WDC and the rest of the clowns. Who?
You bank cuddlers can moan and whine and make all the dopey little jokes in the world, but it's not about the protestors themselves, it's about what they're protesting:
Our system is corrupt and broken from top to bottom, and this has been decades in the making.
If you can't see that, you're the most pitiful animals on the planet. If you won't acknowledge it, you're fools.
Corporate greed?? It's the communist way to blame the people that have provided what has made this country great. We did not get into this mess because of greedy corporations. Our current financial mess started with the CRA Lawsuit in the 90's. The CRA Lawsuit forced banks into making mortgage loans to unqualified borrowers. Bill Clinton made matters worst by forcing Fannie and Freddie into buying these loans without question from the banks. Fannie and Freddie then 'bundled' these loans and sold them to investors like AIG. When you come to understand how the CRA Lawsuit and Bill Clinton's actions snowballed into the Mortgage Meltdown. You will understand who caused millions of Americans to lose their homes and jobs. The CRA Lawsuit was just the snowball rolled down a hill that turned into the disaster we are now living. Also consider that when the Republicans were warning of this happening the Democrats blocked every attempt at creating regulations to prevent it. Google 'CRA Lawsuit' and watch videos at Youtube of Republicans warning of this disaster. Then you will know who's really lying and who's really at fault. OWS is nothing more then a socialist movement backed by George Soros. Look at Europe, Italy and Greece. That's the best socialists can do. When they run out of other peoples money then the whole thing caves in. Socialism 100 years of turning prosperity into poverty.
Occupy Wall Street - Forever - until the American people can bring about economic, political and social positive change.
Isn't it annoying when some woman yells "Shame, shame"?
OWS??? Is that still going on? Sorry, I was busy watching football.
Tom Sawyer-4531102
Tom, yes...God Bless them.
You are right - everyone knows what is going on...the greed, the corruption, the lack of prosecution of the elite con artists on Wall Street, in the Big Banks and in Corporate America. The American people have become voiceless. Bloomberg bought himself a third mayoral term. After last night's dirty-tactics raid, I think that the people of New York will be glad that he cannot run again as mayor of the city. Yes, may justice and equality prevail.
Frank; how many of those granted the right to buy a home would still be in that home if the price of housing didn't get completely out of hand? Who was responsible for allowing a $60,000 home to inflate to $125,000 in a 5 year span? No regulations allow the greedy to get away with whatever they want. All mortgages should be fixed rates - any other rate is just a scam. Lenders and Realtors have no ethics - just because the law allows it doesn't make it right....greed needs a good ass whoopin.
Who Owns Zuccotti Park? Brookfield
Office Properties
Zuccotti Park (formerly Liberty Plaza Park)
Also... How long has the TAX PAYERS of NYC
been charged for maintainers!!! Years before OWS brought attention to the fact
it is privately owned and the people of NYC is paying to maintain it!
Can you say Corruption!
Back charge 'em! for all the years of free maintenance
on the tax payer dime!
Bound by Broadway, Trinity, Liberty, and
Cedar Streets, Liberty Plaza Park underwent a reconstruction that created a
public sanctuary in the heart of bustling Lower Manhattan. Owner Brookfield
Properties, with the help of architects Cooper Robertson Partners and other
collaborators, kicked off the $8 million renovation in mid-July 2005.
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/news/liberty_park_plaza_turns_38704.aspx
That would be the middle class workers of America, who built everything the 1%s profit from, and also generated the demand for the goods and services the 1% provide. The middle class ARE the job creators. The middle class are the people who made this country great.
After hearing, listening and reading the complaints of these OWS people, I still havent found what is their solution to the problems of this country!
I have heard revolution, yeah, try that one, you will be put down faster than a fly on the cake.
Making a living wage, still not sure what they consider a living wage. I myself, being in the work force for 35 years, make a very good wage, but then I have the skills sets.
Ever heard the term, you will never get rich by working for someone else? I did, and it became my mantra. In the first 7 years I retired from the military, I worked for as many companies, gaining the experience and skills to start my own company. I never got paid from those companies what I thought I was worth, no one ever does. I got paid what the company and the market could bear. Now as a company owner, I get paid what I think I am worth.
Greed, one of the 7 deadly sins. But how do you go about regulating greed? What these people don't understand, the CEO's who get paid millions, are paid because the stock holders said they could. Stock holders, average people who had put money aside and bought stock in the stock market.
Want to tax the 1%? Want them to pay their fair share? Who is to say what is fair? Where will it stop? The greed that you all talk about is in Washington, DC. That is where you should be protesting, and that is where the change should be. Not on Wall Street. I am willing to bet that 99% of the 99% have no clue what happens on wall street or the stock market.
Without the so called militray industrial complex, you wouldn't have some of the technologies that make your life a little better today. As a veteran, I support our troops, and always will, but I don't support the ninnies in Washington who put their lives in danger, just to pander for votes.
When did it become the Federal governments job to pay the police, fire and teachers of this country? Newsflash, it's not the federal governemnts job. It is the states and local governments job! Though the collection of state and local taxes! But the states can't anymore because of all the social programs that they now have to pay.
Roads and infrastructure? Again, state and local governments job, with monies from the federal government through the collection of the gasoline tax. Where is all that money going? You are protesting the wrong people. Dont like what is happening, get out and vote! Make the changes in Washington, DC.
I totally agree with you. I live in the Caribbean, and I have been following this "movement". I do not understand what proposals are being made. I will also like to know, as to what percentage of this movement have been collecting unemployment checks. How many are using this as a way to cover their lazy ways.
You guys that think this is going away, I told you it won't, and I don't mean to be smug (ok, that's a lie, I do mean to be smug), http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#45316180
Watch if you dare.
Those in power do not give up their power willingly, and forced economic equality is communism. Just listen to the language: the people's library, the people's park, the people's whatever... For anyone over the age of 50, we've heard it before, from communist Russia. I don't necessarily think that the OWS protesters are advocating communism but I also don't think they realize that it may be the natural consequence of the direction they are taking in their movement.
Doubtlessly, there are problems in our country and the world that need to be fixed. I would though, urge the OWS movement to ensure that they are advocating economic and social change that creates a world, based on individual liberty, that promotes personal accountability, appropriate rewards for individual effort, ingenuity, risk-taking and innovation and economic fairness. They do NOT seem to be headed in that direction.
Not all Boomers sold out and became Yuppies and are now Yuppie Geezers.
As an old activist, The Occupy Wall St Movement is starting like we did:
FIGHTing for FREE SPEECH!
This is not wack-a-mole. The cops will have to decide if they work for the Corporate Machine or We The People. For every person knocked down, 10 will show up next time. Welcome to Retro '60's. The Establishment is on notice - this is what it looks like. When You begin to see signs that say:
"We are all Americans!" and "Game Over" you will know that we are on the way to an American Spring. Walk like an Egyptian! Power to the People!
I notice the only collapsed comments are against OWS. That tells me something about freedom of speech.
Is it any wonder that the OWS crowd is young crowd? They are the ones whose future is stolen by the successive wars, bubbles, economic mismanagement and corporate greed - aided and abated by the party of NO.
And these GOP fat cats dont feel they owe anything to these kids ---- neither an apology nor the fundamental freedom of speech or peaceful assembly. How about guns? Is it ok if these kids took up guns?
Righties do it just as much on the rare occassion that enough of them get on one msnbc thread. Usually they don't have the numbers, but when they do.... even the most innocuous slightly left statements get collapsed.
Either way, it's stupid. People are using the collapse tool as a substitute for the missing 'vote down' button. They just need a vote down button - and you will see collapsing of non-CoH-breaking posts far less.
Nothing like a total disrespect for the law or the rights of others......and they wonder why no one takes them seriously..........
"David Noah Comment collapsed by the community
Why just all week? Why not all month or all year? Maybe you can set a Guinness Book of World record for the most people standing around not accomplishing anything."
That my friend is been set by Congress. I don't think anyone can do nothing for at least 12 years and beat the record. Congressional Republicans will own that record for a very, very long time.
You guys are a real scream. You say you can't evict an idea? Well, since all this BS started the rest of us have been waiting to find out what the heck your idea is other than "tax the rich and give to me". Or worse yet, we want Socialism so we can end up like Greece and Italy.
No one took the people of Tunisia, Egypt, or Libya seriously, when protests first began.
Hyperbole, strawman, sp-sp-sp-spinnnn. Try again.
Michael
I guess you fell asleep and missed the part where the DEMOCRATS controlled congress from 2006 until this year and still have control of the Senate. And the also had the presidency for the last 3 years with 2 of them under total control of the Democrats in congress also. Try educating yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth next time.
No, you can't evict an idea.
But you CAN evict people who pose a health and safety risk to business owners and residents in the area.
Peaceful protest is only one part of the equation. You also need to express your "idea" without posing a hazard to others.
And, lastly, to garner support for your "idea" you have to organize yourselves so that others know exactly what it is you're protesting, and why. This isn't mandatory for free speech, but it goes a long way towards gaining public understanding for your cause.
These protesters, in my opinion, fail on all accounts.
Just close Zuccinni Park with the protesters in there and forget about 'em. (Voting right will accomplish way more than camping out.) ooops... "Zuccotti"!
These protesters said this week that with this 99 percent 1 percent was emerging and handling all the money. So the truth is this group represents that very thing they are protesting about. Those 1 percent take control because they are smarter. They are better educated and they have the ideas that they can put together and they make things happen. It is true they will also serve their own interests first.
It is really easy to protest and complain about conditions, but it takes educated people with understanding of the issues to figure out solutions. The solutions I have heard thus far are often simplistic and as often not workable. So you snuff out one fire only to notice many more appearing.
If the protesters said from Day 1 how hard it will be to come up with solutions that can turn things around I would respect them. Instead we hear all about income inequality, and how mad the protesters are they somebody isn't providing jobs for them and that they borrowed a lot of money to get a degree that is worthless.
The truth is that families ran up debt, bought hastily by taking out equity loans for frivolous items and now their investment, their home, isn't worth much. If we don't learn from our mistakes we will be doomed to repeat them.
The US debt is now almost 15 trillion. It was less than 10 trillion when Obama took office. Keep that in mind and also understand that servicing that debt will cost us double what it does today by 2014.
Protesters - create your own jobs. Don't look to mom and dad or the government. Use the talents that God gave you and strike out on your own.
TEA PARTY SAY'S go to D.C. protest a do little (nothing gov. creates bribes) to hang out there...
OWS say's!!!!
Hell ya!! SAVE AMERICA!!!! Here is how to do it...
BLACK FRIDAY buy small save a small business. Buy AMERICAN save America!!
STAY IN YOUR BUDGET... NO CREDIT CARDS, NO DEBT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS!!!
They protested their brutal dictators. So why arent OWS sitting in Washington DC in front of the white house? Oh, that's right, there is a democrat in the white house. Why didn't they march against Bloomberg the day they marched on Murdoch and the other 1 percenter mansions? Oh, that's right, Bloomberg is a democrat.
Sorry, I can't hear what you are saying OWS, your hypocrisy is way too loud.
Wow, first off, cosidering OWS keeps ranting about Freedom of Speach, it would be nice if all comments/opions (FREE SPEACH) of opposing views were not collapsed. Of course, often people are ok with 'free speach' as long as it matches their opinions.
Second, the 13 'demands' of OWS (as posted on their website) are LAUGHABLE!! I mean it is astounding they think any of that is viable. However, here is where I will come in and AGREE. WASHINGTON is 100% the problem, the LAW MAKERS of BOTH parties are corrupt to the core. They make the laws that Wall Street or any corporation must follow. SO, what I would agree with is that ALL OWS splinter groups all over the country converge on WASHINGTON and make your point. Get rid of your LAUGHABLE 13 'demands' and come up with one unifying message revolving around 'there is no place for big money and corruption in DC'.
Of course none of this will happen but they would certainly get agreement by MOST Americans that this is the root of our problems. NOT Wall Street, NOT corporations and NOT any other reason.... That is too simplistic for them, the would rather have some clouded message
Why are they collapsing all the comments??? What's the point of allowing people to post a comment if you're just going to collapse it? I really didn't see anything offensive in ANY of them!
just why was Franks post collapsed? Are you all really that afraid of the truth and are you really that biased? The solution these people at OWS want is other peoples money to spend. They are trolling for slaves to take care of them. What a hugh joke this is. we have heard what these people have had to say. They have assembled and petitioned and yet they say they must encroach even more. Enough will never be enough. Very sad. To the person that does not understand why the cost of housing was inflated. That is what happens when money is forced on the product. The product becomes easy to market and move. It's supply and demand. People took loans out on that equity to make the situation even worse. And then the bill comes due and you can't pay and the whole system comes down. Make no mistake. It was the massive infusion of loaned money that caused this calamity and all this additional spending is just prolonging the correction. The banks and mortgage companies caused their share of problems but a government buying votes that we could not afford is the culprit
coolness. I might be aginst the laundry list of complaints the protesters have. I by and large consider them a bunch of spoild brats who really should have been spanked a few times, mabe even allowed to play a game where they could WIN as well as LOSE.
But long as they are willing to follow the laws, I've no issue with their protest. It's their right to protest, but the tent city was a violation of the law, and was only allowed to go on for so long because the political types were scared that to many would take their action as an attempt to prevent the protesters right to free speech.. rather then a lawful and legal attempt to break up a bunch of squatters.
seems these OWS fools have learned an important lesson,
no ones trying to stop their protest. just stop them from violating civil laws meant to protect everyone. (actually that's not true.. their are folks who'd love to stop them. but I'd be just as against them as i am against these OWS fools "occupying"
whats that old quote "I might not agree with a word you have to say, but i'll fight to the death to defend your right to tell such moronic lies."
I live in Connecticut...there was a "help wanted" ad in the Sunday newspaper looking for "ACTIVISTS"...at $435 per week. There is a tiny "occupier" camp in downtown Hartford that is barely being noticed by the media.
Are some of these "occupiers" being PAID ??? If so...by whom ???
I have to wonder if some of you even read this article or if you only took the time to read the title and thought that was enough to validate sharing your opinion. I support this movement but I also have to agree it had become to sloppy and unfocused. It started with people angry about the economy and a corrupt government and people got out of hand throwing in extra causes with the original purpose, things that have essentially caused this movement to get off track. The tent eviction was a good thing and the people involved in this cause who truly care about making a change know that. Had you read the article you'd know that too. They are forming committees to discuss the issues and formulate reasonable solutions now. They are reorganizing and forming a stronger front and with the winter months coming they may have to move their discussions to indoor facilities but does it matter where it happens or just that it happens. I keep reading posts about the hippies partying in the park ... I don't know maybe it was that way and yes there was some ignorant individuals who gave this movement a bad rep hopefully with the focus back where it belongs these individuals will be a lesser problem. I say lesser because there is always a few a$$holes in every crowd. To OWS I say congrats on your new start unite, stand up, speak up and make a difference.
I am heartened to hear what the one OWSer had to say about the tents/camping...he is right...it was a distraction from their message. Now they can get back on message.
I support some of what they are saying, most Americans who take the time do, other things I do not. And I may not approve of some of what I feel they seek (Which you can easily ascertain if you take the time). I also recognize they have the usual group of agitators and anarchists among them who are basically anti-anything.
I remember them from when I was involved in a social protest group many years go (ACT-UP) they simply wanted to create havoc and did not care about our core issues. It is a reason I stayed on the edges of the group. We achieved what we wanted, we got the world off its butt and the crisis began to be addressed, one day I hope the ultimate goal will be achieved...a cure.
I support their right to protest, but not to take over and turn Manhattan into a campground. I hope they will regain focus, they have so many side issues clouding them now.
To the idiot who said he hopes Bloomberg will not be re-elected--two things: He is probably more supportive of your rights than any mayor of any decent sized city would ever be. Secondly he is not eligible to be re-elected--as you would say "Educate Yourself"
OK I will now go check the markets!
First off, drc, learn to spell speech. There is no A in the word. Second, you have all the free SPEECH you want here, post away. Other posters also have the option to collapse (note: it's not deleted just collapsed) your comment as provided by the owners of the site. if you don't like it, go somewhere else. It's just that simple. Second, please do tell us all the protests that you have successfully managed? I mean you seem to think you have all the answers so surely you've actually been out form behind that keyboard of armour and wisdom and in the trenches actually DOING something right?
Thlix...
Correct...the "occupiers" infringement on others has to be a part of this conversation too. What about those businesses that have been financially hurt by the smelly tent cities built outside their front doors ??? Who is defending those business owners' "rights" ???
And what about the people who live inside the buildings around the "protest" sites....do those people have a right to be able to sleep in their own homes without having to hear those stoned "occupiers" pointlessly banging their drums 24 hours per day ??? What's the point of banging on a drum all day ??? What does that say...other than making the point that the drummer is an obnoxious dolt with no concern for others by being a public pest to all within earshot. If I had to listen to that nonsense 24/7 I'd go down to the street, grab one of the drums, and smash it over the drummer's head.
These protesters want everyone's attention and respect...why don't they try showing a bit of respect to the people in the vicinity of their little dog & pony show ???
T H A N K — Y O U !!!!,
___________________________________
,,To all of the protesters who have volunteered their time, energy and personal safety to the most important national protest since the Viet Nam War.
The status quo also beat, insulted, killed, and jailed us for protesting Viet Nam. But we won and so will OWS.
Long live OWS !
You can't kill a just cause.
_______________________________
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Mahatma Gandhi quote
_______________________________________________
That would make yesterday the ,,,,"then they fight you" phase.
It looks like the protestors are finally starting to learn. "Occupying" is not a goal, it is a tactic, and maybe not even the best tactic. And until you have your goals and a comprehensive strategy to reach those goals you're killing your movement by conducting random "shout tactics" with no clear direction or planning.
The message of the Occupy movement is quite clear. Some people get it - some people are paying attention.
http://www.facebook.com/SmallBusinessSaturday
http://emails.fedex.com/w/webView?cid=13773343046&mid=1138408610&pid=572174&vid=13543&ee=cGV0ZS52b2xwZUBnbWFpbC5jb20_&si=&mv=H&bv=H&oc=H&sc=&k=13shoY
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/08/wrangler_plant_destroyed_in_al.html
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/local_business_benefits.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/business/15walmart.html
.
.
The message is simple - clear - easy to understand ...
Support your neighbors - support your community. Support what really matters. Do not be defined by greed.
Greed is not a measure of success ...
I love all the folks who refuse to recognize what these movements are about. What do they want? Why wall street? why not DC?
If you want to get to the bottom of a problem - follow the money! that's why wall street?
The issue has always been money and corruption. With citizens united ruling it has now been amped up to the point I wonder why anyone will bother to vote. All the side issues- college loans, tax the rich etc. are just red herrings. It's money and corruption stupid!
I live in a republican dominated district in Texas. After redistricting in the early 2000's carved up the area (and got rid of that commie perv Martin Frost-or at least we were told he was) Kenny Marchant slid into the rep slot. His record is totally unimpressive, he has not introduced any legislation that can even garner a co-sponsor, has voted lockstep with his party 91 percent of the time (9 percent he was absent), and 85 percent of his campaign money comes from outside his district (Washington DC).
Now this is not sour grapes but I can't believe no one runs against him. Now since the Democrats are the only ones who could possibly field a candidate one would have to believe even they don't want to upset things. You see the same corporations who support Kenny also support Dem's in other districts (if they sit on the right committees). Why else would BOA or CITI take such an interest in Kenny's little north Texas district?
So for all of those who say - Just get off your butt and vote - Why?
When it get's to the point that everyone's bought - it's time to look at the system that brought us to this point.
With Unlimited corporate money - 2012 cycle will probably be the repugnant straw that does it.
I hope so.
I'm just ballbusting Republicans, of course I know Democrats don't do anything either. It's hard to fight for people when Companies are paying you not to get involved.
Nerm, "support your neighbors, support your community, do not be defined by greed" are not achievable action items. What if my community has a large oil company that is responsible for most of the jobs? Do you want me to support them? Define greed. I have a home and a car, some people live in apartments and ride a bike, does that make me greedy? How will you define the success of what you're doing? Are there laws you want passed/repealed? People removed from political offices? New institutions created? If you have measurable achievable goals that message is NOT getting out because you are not being consistent and clear. Greed, Freedom, and Support are all subjective, abstract terms. "Repeal the Jim Crow laws" and "Desegregate restaurants, schools, etc." were concrete goals that could be achieved and measured, and because they were they had at least modest success.
@Lar
re:all collapsed posts are against OWS
My post above was FOR! Collapsed by whom? FarRighters that do not want the truth of the '60's told (althought they enjoy our social reforms and take them for granted today)? People who are not Boomers who think all Boomers are alike? People who hate "old people." People who hold it against Boomers because we were all born in a certain time - like we had something to do with it? Or the Old Yuppies who sold out in the '60's and joined The Establishment because Kent State and Nixon scared them or Daddy threatened not to send them to college or cut off their trust funds.
Old activists never die - for every one gone, ten take his place!
Power to We The People - not Business!
Wow, there was a conference call of mayors for 18 cities, and possibly Homeland Security was on that call as well. Nothing like conspiracy.
But why are Democratic mayors in progressive cities (including Rham Emanuel) suppressing OWS? Today OWSprovided a list of major issues, which largely line-up with the Dem platform. I don't get it. Well eviction from parks and police initiating violence is just fanning the flames of the movement--maybe that's why?
In the meantime, the Arab League condemned Syria, and the United States for crackdowns on protesters and use of excessive force...
The time is ripe and right for Occupy to converge on Washington!
Congress needs to see the real We the People lobby!
If Law Enforcement can't control this illegal group, citizens will have to do it themselves!!
This so-called 99% doesn't even represent 1% of the 99%. This bunch of deadbeats need arrested and put in jail. The money donated to this group should be used to pay for the damage the group has caused and their time in jail. They have cost people their jobs and have forced businesses to close. Their Financial Managers are living in 4 star Hotels in New York. This group should take a bath, put on clean clothes and support themselves. At the same time they need to stop the drugs and get tested for T.B., HIV & VD before they are allowed in the real-world of work. If I was an employer I would fire any employee I could see in the group. If they are getting Welfare, Food Stamps, Unemployment - that should be removed immediately.
Joe B wrong in his assessment above
flush those OWS lowlifes down the toilet
Agreed.
Parks are for the 53% of who pay for them to enjoy, not for the whining, leeching 47% to use as toilets.
lowlifes? How many OWS participants did you speak to before you made this extreme conclusion?
I went to an OWS event in my hometown and I was surprised to see a couple of hundred of the most boring, middle of the road people one could assemble. I thought I'd see drum circles and plumes of pot smoke, but I didn't see any of that. Just a bunch of mall-going Americans with homemade signs.
D-1129384
So what was the message, other than "They have money and I don't, so take it away from them and give it to me".
That sounds about right for the '47%' that pay no income taxes but get lots of 'free' benefits.
Roy, does it bother you that the United States Armed Forces are protecting the citizens who don't pay income taxes?
Perhaps we should divide the country in half, the income tax payers on one side, everyone else on the other? Maybe we can just make them have a big greet 'T' on their clothes, so we know who they are when they're walking on the streets they didn't pay for.
Besides, they chose to not pay income taxes, right? All those worthless, vile, inhuman people- they were all members of state and federal assemblies who passed those laws all by their no taxing selves.
No I don't think the message is for anyone to get their money taken away from them. I think the concern is the shrinkning middle class. We've done many things to foster this trend and things should be done to reverse it, so that our middle class is stronger. That's too extreme?
No, maybe we should make a new 911 emergency number in which only those who pay income tax are given the number.
And the children of non-income tax payers- why are we sending them to school on everyone else's dime? Send them home right?
When the sky scrapper is on fire, do you think the fire department should survey those in danger and assess who is paying income tax and make sure they are the ones they'll rescue?
They're freeloading pieces of crap right, not even Americans.
Why shouldn't EVERYONE pay some income tax to the fed? Only the truly poor should be exempt. Part of our problem is what we call "poor" in this country they call "middle class" in other countries.
D-1129384- Great post's! The faux noise crowd are trolling, and only they know who true Americans ARE!
D--I'm IN the United States Armed Forces, and I protect the entire country. The only entity that pays me to do so is the Dept of Defense via tax dollars. So your argument is sort of....stupid. And the last time I checked, all Congresspersons, both state and federal, were required to not only submit but also publish as part of the public record their income tax statements. Since most of them also have personal businesses and incomes IAT their Congressional income, they pay their share of taxes. I share your concern over the shrinking middle class and ongoing redistribution of wealth in this country and the emergence of an economic aristocracy, but that is a result of our tax laws. Reform the tax laws by working through your elected representatives; setting up tent cities in public land, thereby denying their use by other taxpayers, and disrupting the lives of normal citizens by blocking streets and access to public buildings just makes you look ridiculous.
This only holds up because, in those countries, the standard and cost of living is so low hat, on the comparative level, our poor are well-off. I don't think the fact that our poor people at least don't have to live in huts made from yak dung and crap in holes in the ground is really the standard we want to set as "perfectly fine" in our country. Is it?
So, your solution, Agdoc, is to go back to sleep and do nothing? Yeah. Right. Great idea. That's the spirit! Great change has always come from people sitting on their butts and not disrupting the status quo. I can't think of a single example but, yeah, I'm sure that's how it works. Right.
Politicians are owned by the 1% (moreso the .1%). So long as the 99% do precisely as you just suggested they do, politicians will not give a rats ass what the 99% want or need, and you know it. Politicians do not answer to the 99%. Money buys votes. It is expected that there will be over $6B spent on the 2012 elections, more than a billion dollars more than the 2008 election. The wealthy obviously feel that they're getting their moneys worth. I don't know about you, but I can't afford to buy my own politician, like the 1%.
I'm quite happy to give up access to a park. Man, you go on as if the protestors have stolen your first born. LOL.
it's great americans care about something again. why hate this movement?
The sad thing is - I thought D was actually serious at first, and not being sarcastic.
That says something about the rightie-trolls here on the vine, doesn't it?
Students, Veterans, Mothers and Fathers -- all standing up for their fellow Americans -- voicing their Freedom of Speech against Corporate Greed and Corruption.
Thank you Protesters! --You are the Real Patriots!
My, aren't you confused!
There are people in New Mexico? No way.
Yes, the OWS protesters are the real patriots - not the arm-chair war-hawks who never see a day of conflict and hardship.
Yes, there are people in New Mexico. The ones that support OWS, like me, live in the cities. The ones like Bill, that don't, live in trailers in towns you would miss if you blinked at the wrong moment.
Wow....are't you "cavalier' for making such statements about another person's way of life. Many people on this board are talking about people such as those in trailers.....possbily all they can afford.
This is the trouble.......you want to boast and support all the protesting but you're still better than everyone else.
SOMASMH......figure that one out
Good luck to the movement in NM! I hope they make a difference.
Yawn...........
They should be just fine as long as they had their shots up to date.
They should be "occupying" a jail cell and paying the bill. No point to this only paid isurection by the unions and DNC. The house democrats and this administration should have all the credit for these spoiled brats and wierdos.
I would encourage you to attend an occupy event, should one be near you.
You might find, as I did, that the crowd is made up of extremely boring middle aged, normal people.
I saw no dreadlocks, smelt no sage, saw no hippies. Just a bunch of people wondering why big money has this country by the balls and why the rest of us have little influance.
D,
Tell you what, I will give the OWS the same considerations that the left showed the Tea Parties in this country. You decide how much time I will be spending at OWS protests to make my determinations on what kind of people are at them.
Are you talking about the protestors, or Wall Street bankers?
I have a better idea. We'll take the 10 most intelligent OWS protesters and the 10 most intelligent Tea Party protesters and have a debate. I bet you my house that the OWS side would walk the yard with the Tea Party.
Way to take the high road Jarhead. You bitch about something "the left" does and then say you're going to do the exact same thing. No deep thinking for you. Wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.
Ranman you are living in dream land if you think the ows people can even come up with a thought that is their own.
The occupiers are entitled to their opinions and they have the right to assemble and speak. I don't necessarily support their cause but I'll defend their rights under the Constitution to my death. That said...........they do seem to lack focus and cohesion.
Good post! But it was the same with the Tea Party at first. It takes time for these movements to get a footing. Baby steps.
So I take it you were down there battling with the police trying to break up their assembly? Or by "to your death" do you mean you will write a strongly worded news blog comment?
Obviously, there are no forests in NYC, so Rick probably wasn't there. However, with all the encampments and protests across the country, he will probably get a chance to put his words to the test soon enough.
I think once you see cohesion coming out of OWS, it would be the death knell for the movement.
Cohesion would mean they've been co-opted by one particular group, like how the Tea Party was hijacked by the Christian Right. Now you have TP "darlings" like Perry and Bachmann out there... who are nothing more than Dominionists leeching off the Tea Party agenda, thus transforming it. I supported the Tea Party at first when it was "Out of my Pocket, Out of my bedroom" -- but I won't touch it with a 10 ft. poll now seeing that the science denialists, the gay-haters, and the social 'morality' folks have latched onto it. Just fascists wrapped in a flag with a bible in hand.
The reason OWS lacks unity in 'solutions' is because the grievances are so widely felt by many, many with different ideas on how to solve the grievances. Pretty much one voice regarding what they are p!ssed off about, but when asked how to solve it - you get a thousand different voices.
OWS was a good idea, but these people have no solutions to anything. Funny how all of you posters think they are so wonderful, yet vilifiy the Tea Party. OWS is a puppet of the unions, and George Soros. Try reading some of the books written by George Soros and others about George Soros, this is all part of his big plan, (along with Sal Alinsky, and other radicals) Their plan is to overwhelm the system with protestors (rioters) so far thank goodness it isn't working. Once OWS started taking money from ACORN and Unions their entire movement was shown to be a farce.
TEA PARTY SAY'S go to D.C. protest a do little (nothing gov. creates bribes) to hang out there...
OWS say's!!!!
Hell ya!! SAVE AMERICA!!!! Here is how to do it...
BLACK FRIDAY buy small save a small business. Buy AMERICAN save America!!
STAY IN YOUR BUDGET... NO CREDIT CARDS, NO DEBT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS!!!
janet, and the rest of you wanting solutions from OWS, tell me, was OWS elected to congress recently and I missed it? Why are you looking to a group of protesters for solutions? Why are you not DEMANDING that from your ELECTED OFFICIALS (which by the way, many of them are from that T-Party you get all starry eyed over and quote verbatim) ? Do you even realize how foolish it is for you to sit in judgement and want solutions from a protest movement while sitting comfortably behind your computer demanding NOTHING from your elected officials? There in lies the problem. Janet, YOU are part of the problem.
OWS originated from community organizations, it was NEVER a grass roots movement. If you look around in each city you will see a 'professional' organizer, (at least one) in each site. You are a fool if you think differently. This is all planned. Get your heads out of your.... and pay attention.
Yeah...enough with the "grassroots" nonsense...big article in the Newsweek or Time magazine this week about the avowed communist Van Jones' involvement in OWS. That guy is such a radical that even Mr. Obama had to boot him out of the White House. Add Jones to the Soros dollars coming in and it doesn't look too "grassroots" to me.
actualy brutis bear.. I agree with part of what you said here. wow.. I kind of got that mouth watering feeling when your about to throw up when i said that.. (sorry but your constant copy/paste posts are lame.)
But in this I have to agree..
Espicaly with the last line.
STAY IN YOUR BUDGET, NO CREDIT CARD. NO DEBT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS.
something i've done for a long time. I don't even own a credit card. (just the debit/credit cards. that comes from your account. NOT the ooo.. i want that sweet laptop.. so i'll get it now and pay it off 20 bucks a month for the next 50 years becuase i just HAVE to have it now.. insted of waiting till i can afford it. Americas are wasteing far to much money just paying off their debt. whats the intrest rate of credit cards now? 10% or something.. maybe if you've been a good little debt slave they lower you to 6%..
people gripe about sale tax.. then turn around and spend an extra 6-10% for that ooo so important peice of gum.. or that just gota have it $1,000 3d HD TV..
Cut up your credit cards, stop paying money to buy stuff you could get in a few weeks, month or two is you just practiced finicial responsablity and SAVED up for it!
There are definitely NOT professional organizers running any of these Occupy movements. If there were they would be a lot more organized and efficient. The movement at this point is a huge cluster-fudge with NONE of the discipline, tactics, or organization of an effective movement. The key factor that tells you that is they are offering only problems, no solutions (a directed movement would have solutions, self-serving or otherwise). They are a bunch of angry, discouraged people who don't know what to do about admittedly horrible problems. Somehow they are being led to believe that by yelling about the problem someone else will come up with a solution. That's a dangerous assumption....
The occupiers may occupy the space, but they cannot set up room and board. They ignored the rights of the property owners, city laws as well the rights of those who have jobs and wish to work them -- and those workers are not part of the 1%. Gain attention, do not disrupt the lives of their fellow 99%.
When the rest of the 99% are on board, they won't find that their lives are being disrupted.
What happened to freedom of choice theCavalier? I'm in the "99%", since I'm nowhere close to being rich but I think the OWS/To Lazy & not enough character to work hard and provide for themselves, would be better off getting a job. I don't have much but what I do have took me thirty years to aquire. Why should you or anyone else be entitled to the things that I have had to work a life time to get? I don't feel entitled to what Oprah, Tiger Woods, Al Gore, Obama, Susan Serrandon, Jessie Jackson, John Kerry, Michael Jordan, Bill and Hillary Clinton, The living Kennedys or any of the other "1%" people have.
Who decides what a person can have and what they have to give to the Lazy? A very small percent of the so called "99%" support the dead beats that want to get something for nothing.
jmsmith,
I did notice your examples were all Democrats with no Republicans listed. Are you a conservative by any chance? If not let me help you complete the list; Bush, Cheney, Koch, Norquist, Bloomberg, the living Reagans, Carl Rove,or any other of the 1% people. I know you want to be fair. And no, I don't want what you worked all your life to obtain. But I do know that the principles that founded this country are broken and need to be addressed. Why is it so fair that the wealthiest 1% have a increase of 275% in their living standard while the average American was just 40%? They work just as hard as the 1%, so please don't give me that deadbeat right wing rhetoric.That doesn't fly anymore.
Bloomberg is a democrat, genius.
I do believe Bloomberg changed to an Independent in 2007. He has changed his political preference several times.
Jeff,
Read much do we. First two terms registered REPUBLICAN! Independent this last term. Sometimes the dumber just get dumber. LOL!
Oh good. Can't wait until this is no longer part of the news cycle.
Sorry, It won't stop being part of the news for a long time. The occupy movement has taken hold all over the world. During the raid on Zucotti park Tues. AM, there were over 20,000 people world-wide watching on live streaming video, as I was. And after the raid, the occupiers received tweets and texts of encouragement and support from Japan, Europe, and other countries, I am sure. I read that Al jazeera was showing the raid taking place. OWS has just begun. You better get used to it.
That's right Mama whatever, people all over the world were and are watching. Poor people gathered in a hut watching the only TV in town, lol. And, wondering; "What the hell is wrong with those protesters, squalling about inequality. They have homes to go too, good food, shelter, all provided by the system they want to destroy." Well, all a matter of individual perspective I guess. I could be protesting too, I was never rich, was born poor and live now on the bottom rung of the lower Middle Class. Getting along as best I can on a average SS benefit, month to month. And, I'm better off than many living in "Peoples states" around the world.
Of course the world is watching and as reassuring as that may seem, this whole movement is not about how Americans live or how that relates to the rest of the world. The occupy movement is about average American citizens exercising their right as Americans by demonstrating against the unbridled greed that is the hallmark of American business today. The politicians using police storm trooper tactics to deny these American citizens their right to assemble peacefully and have their voices hear will not be forgotten when election time comes around. As many Americans as possible need to mobilize and get registered to vote and then get out and vote in 2012, when that happens there will be an army of ex-politicians on the unemployment line where they richly belong.
I keep telling you people, you deaf and blind, but unfortunately not dumb, people, this movement became permanent as soon as people started talking about it. People will stay on the ground, but the real movement is the silent majority of people who may or may not yet dare to say, even to themselves, "these people are right." This will go away when inequality has been addressed, and not before. These younger people have their whole lives to push this goal, and the energy and spirit to do it. So fasten your seatbelt, if you can get it around that fatcat gut, and get ready for the ride.
"These people" at the protest sites are collectively coming off as a bunch of nitwits, dare I say.
A pity these people are wasting their time.
Get a marketable job skill, get a job and support yourselves!
Stop being whiners. The rest of us are tired of your complaining.
Yes, let them eat cake
I am not tired of the occupiers complaints, I have been making similar ones myself for several years. I just didn't understand the causes of the problems or what to do to help correct them until the OWS protesters helped bring it to my attention.
Steve... Congratulations if you're set for life, but odds are you're only a paycheck or two away from becoming one of the people you scorn.
Steven B, you're a terrible mind reader.
Steve: Have you not heard about the unemployment crisis and the extraordinary increases in education?
Can you tell people who's hiring because I'm certain the vast majority of the unemployed would like to have even a half-way decent job? Do you have any idea how much education costs these day? Apparently not.
GE just moved it's ENTIRE medical x-ray and imaging subsidiary to Bejing. Guess they won't be hiring anymore Americans for a while, if ever again.
This is the same G.E. that paid $0.00 in taxes last year. Even that wasn't enough to get them to stay here and hire the unemployed, many of whom, if not most, have marketable job skills and had jobs until they were laid off by the likes of G.E..
#9.5 raises some excellent points.
Yes, tuition is terribly expensive, it keeps outpacing inflation and the quality of the education has diminished, what with professors telling their students not to send care packages to our troops, or teaching that the victims of the 9-11 attacks are 'little Eichmanns".
And the GE stories are also terrible.
What do they have in common? Both are liberal bastions. Especially GE, whose CEO Jeffrey Immelt has Obama's total cooperation.
Yet, the liberals do not protest Obama, or GE. Nor do they protest the foolishness that takes place at our universities.
Which leads me to conclude that the OWS crowd are one big bunch of hypocrites, just like Michael Moore.
I've been well off (at least in my mind) and I have been dirt-poor broke. I have never been 'well off'. I drive a modest vehicle and live in what many would consider a small bungalow.
If I'd wanted to be rich I would work 80-90 hour weeks, and get a PhD level degree in something marketable, like an M.D. or Electrical Engineering, for example.
Steven, wake up and smell the freakin' coffee. There are plenty of liberals and progressives who have been sickened by the administration of Barack Obama, and I am one of them. And of course we protest GE!! Where are you getting your information? One of the basic gripes of OWS is the corporate takeover of America!! It isn't about parties anymore, that's SO OVER. BOTH parties are corrupt to the core. Wake up, read up, and CATCH UP - before you get trampled by your own ignorance.
Oh I get it Steve, its is the fault of the unemployed that they don't have jobs. If maybe they all tried a little harder, we'd have 0% unemployment and we wouldn't have had a recession. Because we all know the little guy is responsible for the economy being the way it is right now.
Brilliant!
“They’re going to regret messing with us.”
Nysheva-Starr, 35, led the group in rhythmic clapping.
Yep, that will show them.
Oh yeah, wait till there is a 157 cities burning. You really don't see whats coming??
Military>157 Cities Burning.
You really think the Gov't will stand for it? If citizens break the laws to the point of open rioting, then the Gov't will call in the Guard and put a stop to it, as they should. There will no be cities burning.
I hate to disappoint you boys, but I just walked past the protest in a very large Western city, and there was nary a fire in sight. I'm not one for camping under any circumstance, but things were peaceful.
This is not some third world country. The military will not fall down on the side of the despots if this battle erupts. The military is poorly paid and will side with the people. The military ARE the people not some elite personal guard.
If the US turned it's forces against it's own people it would certainly be a new era. Of the people, for the people and by the people would be just a memory.
But most importantly, there are many more of us than there are of them.
MJ, I've heard that one many times before. "The military will side with the people".
Let me give you a clue -- after 28 yers in the U.S. Army, I can tell you for a fact that the military will NOT "side with the people" if it comes to quelling riots and disorder. That fantasy has been disproven again and again.
Keep your demonstration peaceful and productive, and there will be no problems. Get rowdy and get crushed.
Being a vet myself, the military will do its job according to the orders of their superiors so far as its a lawful order. If it ever comes down to actual violence against American civilians - that would be a catalyst moment for a lot of service men and women... and I think many would refuse to cross that line, from commanders down to the grunts. There would definitely be dissention in the ranks, but I doubt you'd see a total schism like you saw in some of these dictatorships.
A violent revolution? Not gonna happen. Not only are things not bad enough - the only way that would be remotely possible is if it begins within the military itself. But unlike many South American countries known for their military coups - the US military is not a separate branch of government - it falls under the Executive Branch. Logistically it is also supported by a vast civilian workforce and various government agencies.
First off mj, your an idiot (atleast in the sense that you know nothing about the military). You have either never been military or have no family that's been military. I will agree that the military do not get paid enough, and that's a shame. But as for your comment on "they will side with the people", you couldn't be more wrong. Soldiers follow orders, and if their orders are to go up against you and others like you, make no mistake, they will. Keep in mind, these are the same people that have fought for your right to protest and voice your opinion. But they also took an oath when they joined the service, and they will uphold that oath. (I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. So don't hold your breath that they will side with you. As for your comment that "there are more of us than there are of them", don't be so sure about that. Most people are just ignoring your group, but if ever came to it, they'd be there to go against you. And you can take that to the bank.
I'm not in the military and never have been. I have to agree with Katie, if protestors were to start causing damage in my neighborhood, I would be there to go against it.
One could argue that Wall Street is a domestic enemy and the civilian leadership that is under their sway (and that of foreign lobbyists as well, like China) are also domestic enemies.
I'd support a military coup and I'd pee my pants laughing watching the military line up 535 Congressmen up against a brick wall, do a flyby with an Apache gunship, and chew them up with chainguns. I'd laugh even harder if they had their lobbyists and owners (campaign financers) lined up with them.
This country doesn't need the Tea Party, OWS or Congress. We need to line the 1%ers and the outsourcers up against a wall, or else guillotine them. And then flatten a few countries like Pakistan and Iran with nukes to demonstrate the American people won't be pushed around by foreign enemies either.
DCS, I agree with half your summation, but peaceful and productive demonstrations have been forcefully put down.
Here in Rochester NY, police have confiscated protester's signs and arrested a reporter along with demonstrators.
This doesn't mean we've become a facist state, but it seems a clear indicator our elected and appointed officials have either forgotten or chosen to ignore individual rights.
Mayor Bloomberg is going to get his way in NY, him and his ilk own the place. Protesting corruption in the midst of corruption was always going to get ugly. When you've got an intellegence service that would do a small country proud working against you have to ramp up support quick, or else. Bless 'em all, they've done just that.
OWS, "Obama's War on Success," continues... without even a tent to sleep in.
Yes We Can!
it would be so nice if the red-state people would just create their own oligarchy with Rush and friends and secede.
They make the national average of our IQ scores look poor.
These protesters are the only true Americans left. Willing to bravely stand up for American principles like fairness and honesty.
Well, that's not entirely true, but they probably are 'left.'
Tell that to the families of all the members of the military who died so that you could make an ass out of yourself you little douch.
If your not one of "These" protesters your not a true American? When the Tea partiers were standing up and protesting raising taxes, raising the dept limit, fixing SS and medicare. Protesting against TARP, the 800 billion dollar stimulus package where were all "These" protesters...
David, The T-party we saw were anti Obama Adm, bussed in by Americans for prosperity, Dick Army and the Koch bro's. And to all that think Obama's Adm is in support of the OWS, LOL!
There is no bravery in protesting, as long as no laws are broken, no one will bother you. There is no bravery in throwing rocks and bottles at police, starting fires, breaking windows, carrying guns, rape and assaults, and using drugs during the protests.
War on success? Are you that ignorant?
Wil, you think it's not a war on success? Hell, it's human nature to attack, verbally and finally physically, anyone who succeeds and rises above the heads of the majority. The majority in any group of people. I worked all my working life blue-collar, learned skills to make myself valuable and wound up being dissed by fellow workers because of it. "He shouldn't be making more than us, we've been here longer! We have families to support, he's taking food out of the mouths of our children!" So, lol, sometimes a guy would come asking about something work-related. "Get lost fool, go ask your buddies." To add injury to insult management in one company told me to help those guys, they're just trying to get by too. That came from the greedy company, lol. So, it was time to move on down the street, get another job. I could have stayed in places, been a group-leader or foreman but I wasn't going to work as a slave for anyone, for any group, company or co-workers. I made my life, such as it is, and gave value for value, never asked for special treatment. Well, other than being paid more for giving better value. I'm 70, retired, and when I read and see things happening now like the OWS movements, my only response is, like it was when I was working; "Kiss my ass, my greedy life is mine and not yours."
Well Bernie Madoff rose above the rest, he just went too far. The rest of Wall Street gets away with it.
And baby boomers, LOL! WWII Generation = Greatest Generation
Baby Boomers = @$$h0le$ who are taking more out of the system then they put into it.
I think they should eliminate Social Security and their medical benefits that MY payroll taxes pay for, and let them die.
How's that for social darwinism, fkers?
Do you think Jesus would be there with the 'sissies', 'lowlifes' looking to keep the poor from getting poorer?
Or would belittle the protesters from his penthouse above, paid for by trading paper back and forth?
Or would he just be on newsvine calling people names?
Jesus is not a digital native.
No, But I do think He would remind you "He helps those who help themselves."
And remind them of the 9th & 10th commandments.
God "helps those that help themselves" not Jesus. Jesus was against greed just like these protesters are. I swear, religious people know the least about religion.
RealisticRyan, Jesus was also spoke about laziness and coveting what others have. We all make our own way in life. The only thing you're owed is a chance, not free health care, substidised housing, food stamps, wic, a cell phone or someone else's stuff just because you they have more than you. This is not the Bread of life that he talked about. If the protesters spent as much time reflecting on their actions and behavior, as they do others...What a wonderful place this could be.
"God helps those who help themselves is not in the Bible." It is actually the moral to one of Aesop's Fables.
jmsmith,
I do agree that people are not owed a living. That said, I also feel people at times do need a "helping hand when down on their luck". But then why we should only discuss "free health care, subsidised housing, food stamps and not include the other problems that are there? Bailout money for failing corporations brought on by their own greed, subsidized businesses like agricultural, oil industry, lack of representation unless you are wealthy and can buy (lobbyist) what laws and regulations you want. All these things take allot more money then the Bread of life he spoke about. I think they have reflected on life and found a broken Republic that needs fixing....now that would be a wonderful place to be.
Hey Nysheva-Starr, et al...when you are done with your rhythmic clapping, can you help a sister out with a couple of bucks?
Welp, just got home from WORK.. earning my own money to pay back my own STUDENT LOANS little by little as I have been for the past 9 years and will continue for the next 11. I knew what I was getting into when I took them out. I signed the promissory note and I would NEVER expect anyone else to help me pay them back. I'll never own a house... I'm a teacher and will never see a paycheck that matches the amount of work I do. I don't complain. The little $ I have left I ENJOY MY LIFE. I wouldn't want to sit rotting in a park complaining about my situation.
What percent am I??
I can't stand these park people. Respect your community and let leaders of our community deal with the important issues in the city instead of babysitting you.
What would your grandfather or grandmother do in this day and age? cry? or Lie ! for some they would rather die, grow up!!
"I'll never own a house... I'm a teacher and will never see a paycheck that matches the amount of work I do. I don't complain. "
The protestors are fighting FOR people like you!
Chris808 - Right! That is exactly the problem. Americans have gotten so accustomed to the idea that we can't get a college education without spending 20 years paying back student loans, being unable to buy a home, working hard all day for less than what you are worth in a school system that is decaying around you, driving over bridges that are structurally unsafe, fighting to find any kind of a job at all, having poor health care coverage, etc., that we have just been plodding along for years blindly accepting that we are stuck with just a few $$ left with which to enjoy life. But there are a few heartless, greedy people sitting in high-rise offices on Wall Street and Washington DC who have been syphoning money out of our schools, infrastructure, health-care system, and our pockets to pay off our politicians and get them under corporate control. I am old and wise enough to realize that our community leaders are NOT going to deal with important issues in the city. They are too busy dealing with lining their own pockets and buying political power. WAKE UP and take notice.
Chris808,
You're in a state called contentment/gratitude, a state that fools abhor. You are to be envied by the wise.
Wake up Chris! This is America...you/we shouldn't have to be content to live life like this. I am in the same situation as you, but I realize it can and should be better.
Chris808,
Is that what you want for your children or their children?
Because if things keep going the way they have been, when our children grow up they'll be lucky to even have that.
18 deleted, Milo9 with a paragraph about their fellow commenters:
You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Chris- Is that your problem, someone might get something you don't? My husband of 30 years, and I have long ago payed off our student loans, and make a very good living. Our government loans were very low Interest. But anyway don't let faux noise, or politics let Americans be against fellow Americans. Don't judge what you know nothing about, as a teacher I would think that maybe you would see, you are part of the 99%, they are fighting for!
i
He's way more than confused -- he's completely clueless.
O.K. Picture this OWS made it's point... Wall Street collapses, big business is so heavily taxed that it can no longer operate in the U.S.
GREAT :o)
NO WALL STREET, NO BIG BUSINESS, NO JOBS, NO TAXES BEING PAID = NO FREEBIES FOR ANYBODY. Do you not get this???????????????????????
The big businesses remaining in the U.S. will MOVE to another country.
If you owned a business and were being taxed to the hilt in one county but two county's over there were no taxes... what would you do to survive, move your business over a couple county's I would bet.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot... it is absolutely freaking stupid.
That's the thing, majority of them never owned a business in their life. They probably took history of arts as electives instead of economics or business management because it's not needed in their Liberal Studies major.
The problem is....these companies already moved their businesses out of the U.S. They didn't do it to save tax money. They did it to keep from paying American workers a fair wage or have to kick in for health care. Send the job to a kid for 5 cents an hour and you get to make billions. They don't care what happens to the average American worker, haven't for decades. The complaints from these protestors isn't for you to take your hard earned money and give it to them, its to have the ability to work for a living earning a fair wage, and god forbid, the ability to see a doctor if they get sick. What happened to the days when companies offered workers a safe place to work and a way to retire after 30 years worth of service. Now those same people are training their replacements for jobs that are leaving the U.S. In order to climb out of this massive mess, we are all going to have to pay more taxes and see fewer benefits. Unless both sides get their heads out of their asses, this country is going to get ripped apart by those who are too ignorant to take the lifetime titty out of the politicians mouths.
While the businesses may not be doing enough to make people want to stay, the people don't want to stay at a job for 30 years. People want to look for new challenges and they find these challenges at different companies and so workers move around a lot.
The big businesses have already moved to other countries because they found out workers in those countries would do good work for pennies/day, no benefits, no child labor laws, and no environmental protection laws to drive up their production costs. So now Americans should be real proud that we have not only polluted our own country, our corporations are also destroying the air and water quality in China, Mexico, and India. How neighborly of us! Of course big corporations like Walmart will import Chinese made products for a lower price than ones made in the U.S. The Chinese people are beginning to wake up to the fact that their continent is becoming toxic and deadly, and will eventually have to raise the prices of their products to pay for environmental controls. The owners and CEOs of American corporations will still find a way to pad their own pockets unless the rest of us take charge and stop them.
Shelley,
Are you kidding me??? Corporate America has been given every tax break and incentive to stimulate job growth and yet they are still moving their companies overseas.
Where have you been?
I find it kind of odd that Corporate Cats move overseas because they "can't afford" to pay American workers.
Then turn around and give themselves enormous raises with all the money they saved.
We all know getting that super-yacht and 3rd private jet is more important than keeping employment stateside.
Their personal dragon's horde seems to take priority over any sense of loyalty or patriotic duty... which is an essential factor for successful capitalism.
Totally agree with you Chris. Enough with this already. These people are accomplishing nothing and are only making fools of themselves. As one of the 99%, I say you do not represent me. The amount of taxpayer money used to police this movement is taking away jobs from those who need them.
Patty, They will never get what you say. Just like they will never have the strength of character to work hard for what they want to take from others.
Patty and JM - who are you people listening to? Apparently not the OWS protesters OR their supporters. Tell the police chiefs and mayors to send their cops to REAL crime sites and leave the peaceful protesters alone. If they need a cop at an occupy site, they'll call 911! And JM - nobody wants to "take" anything away from their neighbors and fellow countrymen; all they want is to "take" back political control from the corporations and give it back to the voting public. What you have worked for, you should be able to keep, I think we all agree on that. Don't be so concerned that someone's going to get what you got more easily than you did, that's not what this is about.
A challenge to all the OWS critics: Do you care about your fellow citizens and the world around you, or just about yourselves? If you do care about others, then what are YOU doing to fix this country that you think is more effective than protesting in the streets? Share with us. How's your strategy working out?
Our government has been hopelessly corrupted by money. It's a democracy in name only, and everyone knows it. The laws aren't written to benefit the public at large. The middle class and the environment are both disappearing. Our so-called leaders and representatives show no motivation to do anything but serve the wealthy, the finance industry, the military industrial complex, and other well connected corporate interests. Peak oil and global warming are coming down the road, but nothing meaningful is being done to address those problems, because any meaningful action might disrupt the income flows of generous campaign donors.
OWS folks are doing their best to overturn all of this corruption through force of numbers and determination. It's a long shot, but, short of violent revolution, there aren't many effective alternatives left. Our "representatives" quit sincerely considering the needs of the public a long time ago. And, just so you know, most of the Occupiers that I've met aren't supporters of Obama. They recognize Obama and the Dems as part of the problem.
1. I'm going to be one of the millions who vote Ocumba out, that should be enough to start fixing this mess.
2. There is nothing man can do about natural global warming.
3. All the OWS has to do is vote Odumba and the dems in the senate out of office.
You are definitely a Republican.
“There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.”
― Mario Savio
Oh, Johnny, your life is so easy and simple! If only it were that... simple... for everyone. Or that everyone were that simple. It has to be so much... easier.
John D, I'm a OWS critic and I care more about myself, damn right. I and mine were the sole reason I worked. If I only had myself to support, to work for, well, that would have been reason enough. I've been called selfish. Hey, that's cool, I'd rather be selfish than the opposite; Selfless.
Hypocrites!
What about the other half of the Corruption Cabal? - D.C.?
What about Fannie & Freddie; what about Frank & Dodd; what about getting a foothold "Government Sachs" under Bill Clinton?
Those are the things that initiated the bubble that the bankers/hedge funds exploited.
These people are correct in their basic message of greed, but the answer is not more taxes going to the inept and corrupt government, t's to redact the socio-economic compensation structure.
What about BUSH!!!!!!
...unfortunately John, you happen to be correct. Having dealt with government officials, unions and the judicial system. It's all about the all mighty DOLLAR! I could go on, but I've also learned along the way point of views are personnel and are only shared amongst a few. We have become fractional, which makes it easy for those in control. So we will continue to run on the treadmill to no where, until someone pulls the plug and we slam into the wall in front of us.
Those OWS protesters need to understand that life is not perfect nor fair, by complaining and whining that the 1% has money and they don't is not constructive. All they have accomplished so far is destroy any sympathy or compassion people have for them. They turn the community park into a a ghetto--drugs, murder, rape, trash, violent, defecate and urinate at the park, and creating a filthy environment. Not only that they managed to destroy the local businesses around them--customers do not want to patronized a business where a mob runs amock. I saw a news article with a picture of a guy defecating on the US flag. This is disgraceful. My conclusion is that these protesters are low-lives/scum. Respectable people do not engage in such behavior.
wow ltk, you saw a picture of one of the protesters defecating on a U.S. flag? intersting, first I've heard of it. Haven't heard of any rapes. Heard about the shooting victims but have heard of no one being arrested. Maybe one of the injured businesses you spoke of took matters into their own hands. I suppose your discription of them low-lives/scum tells everyone where you head is at.
OWS is a great movement whose time has come. You unfortunately swallowed the 'Blue Pill' so good luck with your cliched existence. Those Angry Birds are spreading their wings, sorry if they got a little poop on your windscreen.
LTK, when will you understand / hear: they aren't complaining that 1% has more than they do, they're speaking up about the 1% having power over our government and way of life BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE MONEY. It's NOT about "I want what you have", no matter how much Rush or Glenn or any other misinformed talking head says it is. It's about taking our country back from the corporations and banks that are running it. It no longer does any good to say "Go out and vote" - all the politicians are BOUGHT and the elections are RIGGED. It no longer does any good to say "Go out and get a job!" - we already work 2 or more rotten jobs because the good ones are all gone! Where have you been? What have you been reading and listening to? Get your head out of the sand and stand up for your country, take it back if you love it! We don't live in the 50's anymore and haven't for a damn long time. And that's just the way the rich folks like it.
I am at awe. How are these people living? I mean, where are they getting their money from? Doesn't anyone one work? I am sure all the homeless people who actually sleep in the parks are getting tired of them. Instead of living in the parks and making noise like they did in the sixties that didn't amount to much, they need to go home, start new businesses and help the economy get back. why is it just me who did research on how the Greatest Era People got the country started back producing after WWII? It is just it. people do not want jobs and they don't want the economy to get better. All these people are doing is making things worse. This person said that they have all these committees, but they aren't doing anything that I can see and I do not really think that the majority know what is actually going on. Wall street isn't the problem tothe economy. #1 is the Big O in Washington. We should had impeached him along time ago. Maybe the Vice President knows more about government that O (not Ophra) does.
They got their money from their rich parents who told them it was OK to borrow $200K to master in liberal arts in a down economy.
Andrew, I doubt rich parents would have their kids borrow money. I think some of us are just having some cognitive dissonance trying to comprehend that the protesters have more money than most people do. So, technically, you might be the poor one complaining about the rich.......which is sort of ironic.
They have a donation site on their website, also many pan handle. At least in Boston they do.